EVE General Discussion

At risk of starting a post in this way - I have a question for everyone and would love to see how my fellow players feel about this. So, you guys remember Erotica 1, right?

Relax. The reason that I mention E1 is simply to remind us all that due to the actions that E1 decided to take while gaming and meta gaming EVE online - a very large and very public outcry was started up due to his content in his "bonus rooms". There were strong opinions on both sides, one of the most epic threadnauts ever to exist in GD was created, and the end result (at least this is the word on the street, it's not like we as players can actually verify this) is that E1 was banned from EVE online.

Pretty much everyone knows about this, and PLEASE do not think I am trying to discuss or debate anything related to the E1 event. I simply brought it up as a point to compare the behavior that I have witnessed by two EVE players over the last few days.

So, I have had the amazing good fortune of witnessing a player, in open local chat - go on endlessly about how happy he is that the eve player 'Vile Rat' was violently killed by terrorists. This player then went further and added comments such as "He got what he deserved" and "one less tard in EVE". Shortly after that, a EVE blogger welcomed this player to his corporation and made a public blog post about how happy is to have a player like this as part of his corporation, and that he does not care about this players comments as long as it results in him "getting more press."

I'm actually at a loss for words, and this from a guy who posts some pretty impressive walls of text.

My questions to you, EVE players -

1) Is this kind of behavior at least as deplorable as the behavior that E1 engaged in and should it result in removed from the game?

2) Is openly celebrating the murder of another EVE player the type of thing that we as a community feel should result in the removal of this player from the community?

3) How about the CEO in question, the one who openly admitted that he was fully aware of all of this and did not care as long as it resulted in his blog being read more often? Is this type of behavior less, more, or roughly on the same level as the type of behavior that resulted in the removal of E1 from the community?

I'll go first and answer my own questions.

1) Yes, and I find it far far worse on so many levels. Conning people and stealing their stuff in Eve online is part of the game. Conning them into making a fool out of themselves on teamspeak for a few hours for the laughter of others is seen by many players as VERY wrong - but I personally find that openly celebrating the RL murder of another Eve player to leave anything that E1 ever cooked up in terms of offensive in the dust. This player should be removed from EVE at once and never allowed to return, as he has clearly he cannot handle EVE.

2) Yes, it is. I don't feel any "warnings" should apply in such extreme cases like this, and that a large portion of the EVE community will agree with me on this. In the case of E1, there were people who really felt he should be banned, some who did not - and it was quite a debate. I'm wondering how many of us will actually argue that celebrating Sean's RL murder in open chat should be considered acceptable behavior.

3) Tricky one. I personally find that condoning this type of behavior when there is clear in game evidence that the CEO was fully aware of this type of behavior before accepting the member into his corp, and clear in game evidence that the CEO admitted he did not care as long as it resulted in more attention being shown to his blog is far, far worse then anything that E1 ever did. I don't think total remove from EVE is the answer, but I think a very LONG forced vacation from the game would be helpful in a case like this.

Anyway, what do you guys think about this?

GM/ISD - I assure you that I am not trying to toll, re-open the issue of Erotica 1, or in any way violate the rules of posting on the forums. I feel this is a very valid conversation that the community should have, but of course - I understand and respect if this type of decision is unwanted or not welcome. Again, the only reason that I used Erotica 1 as a reference is that I feel is provides a very good point of comparison in a discussion like this.

*Snip* Removed off topic part of the post. ISD Ezwal.

But this dude should be cast from the eve universe for the comments.

This is just what I think at the moment. If you want to get the only opinion that matters or want action taken, petition it.

1) It's deplorable, but nothing I feel CCP should get involved in. CCP may and has felt differently about such cases, so do it at your own risk. I wouldn't miss anyone who got banned form doing it though.

2) It doesn't bother me, but I wouldn't be surprised let alone upset, if CCP decides to take action in such cases since nothing good will come from it and it's not related to the game in any way. I've hated people and been happy when they died, but I'm more then willing and capable of keeping it to myself and not do anything to disrespect them or the people who loved them. They're dead. Let it go. Move on to new things.

3) There is nothing wrong with attention whoring or attention pimping in this case I guess. It's like running a tabloid. People often publicly disapprove of them, but they still read them and they tend to be more popular then the well respected publications because of the nature of their content is more interesting. Is the owner of the paper supposed to ignore that reality just because some people will frown on it?

First problem, WTF is the E1 issue? Haven't heard anything about E1 whatever E1 is.

Eve Online has the same anonymity problem as the intertubes with people having less restraint in a virtual environment than the restraint they have in RL interactions. Some people will basically say anything to troll or get a reaction. Then there are the people who genuinely believe whatever they are saying.

CCP doesn't appear to actively monitor conversation channels for the purpose of censorship. Effectively CCP appears to be turning a blind eye to the issue until an issue blows up.

FWIW I petitioned a character who had the name "Vilerat Deservedit".
There is no longer any character under that name.

Yeah that's pretty ****** up

1) scamming vs speaking ill of the dead? no, scamming is clearly worse (please, note the liberal use of sarcasm)

2) no, it shouldn't be removed from the community. people are free to say what they want (no matter how ******** it is), and actions have consequences.

3) post something controversial, get blog traffic... erm, yep.

Thanks for the opinions, guys! If course, if any of the witnessing parties did create support tickets due to the incident - it's not like anyone is going to discuss that here. But yes, those of you mentioning it - I know what a support ticket is, how to use one, and thank you for trying to be helpful.

The reason I bought this topic up for discussion was simply to get the thoughts of other players on this topic for a bit of perspective. Thanks to those of you who answered my questions and gave your opinions!

Crappy people are going to be crappy people.

Simple as that, DJ.

I hate it, but what can you do. People holding composure and having class for the sake of the end game of an elaborate scam......"evil monsters who should die," according to some of the people who posted in the various forums about the Ero situation. However, the "perfect, upstanding, non-criminal" elements of EvE are usually the people throwing the worst vitriol.

Should someone who speaks ill of the dead be punished? Sure. But by who? And by what moral guideline? As much as I hate to say it, it becomes a GM issue at that point. I never personally knew VR, but I was in TNT at the time of his passing, and wrote a heartfelt apology to those who did know him. Because I was raised to respect the deceased. Speaking ill of the passed is akin to karmic suicide, in my humble opinion. Others do not share that sentiment, or merely are blinded by "internet tough guy syndrome." Either way, it is counter-intuitive to the sense of "community" CCP tries to create. Not saying they do the best job, after all, a glance at mb.com is enough proof of that.

Open a ticket is my personal advice, man.



And Yarda...

You are not clever.

I know Ero.

I know DJ.

Not the same person.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Yeah, I totally see your point there. I just have a hard time accepting that some people will be permabanned for trolling a bit too hard and laughing at someone on teamspeak, but someone who does everything in their power to find whatever is the most offensive, over the top and generally awful thing possible to shout as loud as they can.....

idk man :)

On a side note, thank you for confirming the top secret fact that I am not Erotica 1 :P That dude needs to get his story straight, all CODE agents are alts of the Mittani. Everyone knows that. xD