Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You may not have been around during the dark ages when guns were serverly broken and missile ships were gods. I was. It sucked being a gun boat. I priase CCP finally fixig them and rebalancing them. My only suggestion for the missile boat pilots feeling like they do not stand a chance....Train your gun skills. '

My how role reversal happens. You would be suprised how PVP in 0.0 has changed.

HAve fun and sorry op for side lining here.

While I have never run a incursion with this character. I have run them with a alt.

Problem:
Sites are always the same, and despite the excellent AI and difficulty of enemy ships, they can be run with little to no change in fleet tactics if the pilots don't make serious mistakes. These leads them to being a good paying but still boring grind.

Solution:
Allow some random or dynamic variance to site waves and spawn locations. It may also be of interest to have officer like units spawn at random with some waves, these officer units could have special names and stats.

Problem: The amount of IS boxed fleets in some cases extends the amount of real fleets that are formed by players(I am often with OIC in a system that got our fleet and 2 IS boxer fleets in it and that's it). While I don't have any problem with IS boxing or multi boxing, the number of sites in one system is limited and it undermines all the work of FCs and Channel leaders that spend a lot of time to include newer players and have to deal with people leaving abruptly, socialize to get people on grid and spend time and ISK to sort out fittings and game play with a lot of different people to run them effective, what IS boxers don't have to do.

Solution: CCP should reconsider if click multiplication don't give you a very real unfair advantage. I multi box up to 3 clients on grid the normal way(what isn't even possible in any effective way without a huge experience in key binding and reducing the amounts of clicks and mouse ways to a minimum by utilizing macro keys, good window positioning and a a lot of training with the key bindings) and it is a lot of work and very exhausting. This is not for using the same ships at the same target(what would be very easy) but playing a lot of different roles, like playing logis and dps at the same time or even completely different DPS that shoot different targets at the same time(blaster Vindi vs Frigs and NM very bigger stuff).

Playing 10 at the same time wouldn't be possible without mirroring clicks to multiple clients at the same time and it amplifies the alpha and focus fire in a unfair way, compared being a FC that works with 8-9 other people that don't play perfect most of the time.

I bring this up because I have a huge experience with multi boxing, utilize it nearly every day to keep my fleet running and glad when I find real players that can take over some roles and save me the stress while FCing and I consider programs like IS boxer as a unfair advantage because people that IS box a 10 man fleet couldn't do this without IS boxer. I have seen her videos and I know what the software does, I am a lot faster with the mouse moment and try to save time with key binding wherever it is possible and I know I couldn't effectively play 10 accounts a the same time, leave alone using it as a feasible way to beat 10 real players on grid with it.


Problem: Scout sites are nearly never used as Incursion resource. They don't give a real reward, they are not a training ground for small corps/single players to try out Incs, they are not even run.

Solution: Change Scouts to 1-5 man sites, reduce the incoming dps to 500-700 dps(what is tank able solo) to give options to do them with a few heavy tanked ships, RR BS or with the help of a active tanked logi. They should pay out 3.5M and 500 LP per site and take 3-6 minutes depending on the pilots on grid on grid, making them a attractive site type for people that want to have a first look. The sites should not include any jamming(what would be broken with just a single hull on gird) and be rather close range themed like NCOs.


Problem: The changes to Incursions 2 years ago did lead to a Incursion mono culture where medium ships are hardly used at all, because every site has massive EHP chopping blocks that allow BS to beat medium hulls.

Solution: Add at least 1 site that does give medium hulls the advantage by requiring a lot more speed(like moving between spawn points back and forth), lots of smaller targets that are hard to hit by BS, less EHP in it and reduce the feasibility of sniper fittings on BS by TDs or damps. The goal should not be to exclude BS, just to make them not the optimal setup for the site, what allows fleets of medium hulls be viable and even needed again.

Problem: Only 3 site types per difficulty level, what is very repetitive.

Solution: Add 2 more site types to VG, AS and HQ each. For VG 2 should be the medium ship sites, for AS and HQ at least one, giving different fleet setups more room to run without getting contested into the ground by pirate BS fleets, increase variety for the pilots involved, allow for a bigger variety of fleet setups(instead of stack Vindis till you can kill the small stuff quick, stack Machs if you expect Contests, fill up the rest with NMs to improve site times) give FCs more site stacking options(handicap other fleets by stacking up sites they are not set up for properly). It should also increase the Site count per system by 1-2(8 for VG, 7 for AS, 6 for HQ).

Problem: NCNs have to many pockets and EHP in them and should be changed. While the Site is interesting, and I am against removing the BS restriction, because I welcome any single site that can't be run with a HQ fleet setup during form up and any amount of help smaller channels get that are willing to specialise over big channels and by this actually can dominate a niche, even against much bigger channels.

Solution: Remove one pocket in the middle and cut the amount of sniper targets in the last pocket in halve. In D-Inc we managed to bring the times down to 12 minutes per NCN, under 10 for the others(what is record for any channel I ever flown in), by investing a lot of work into a mwd setup, a different setup just for that single site and working out how to utilize mjd or mwd fitted close range ships against sniper targets. If the NCN could be run a bit faster then the other sites, it would be fine by me, giving the site to channels that bring a specific fleet, instead of halve of a HQ fleet to it. The effect of it will be even better with a real site for medium ship types in AS, because then the variety will be there, as well as the people that bring medium ships.

Not quite. Helix has an NCN record of 11:46, and I've seen you in our fleets, but the ABC comp we run is unique to my knowledge.

D-Inc changed to ABCs at the beginning of winter last year, I was advocating it quite a bit(based on my experience with ABCs on grid for Island Inc fleets) and helped to nail down the free move mwd game play with the ABCs to keep up with lots of mwd vindis on the other side(playing it like a armor MWD fleet, nailing down targets by parking mwd fitted vindis right in front of them). As for the site times it did feel a a bit faster with D-Incs mwd fleet then with Helixs slow boat fleet when I last had time for the AS fleet in the channels. I have a lot of respect for the work that was done by both channels with the AS doctrines and I think both channels can show very impressive site times, as a result of a lot of practice, work on the doctrine and work on the setups to archive this result.

As for OIC, I normally got everything we need for NCNs(2 Oracles, 2 Talos, Legion, Loki) with me in a extra Orca and hope that I can archive a similar good performance with a armor fleet when we have enough people around to practice a bit more with the doctrine I designed for OIC.

I would think it is self explanatory, but just in case you missed it.

Adding a PVP element to high sec PVE will only eliminate the PVE and therefore the 'Intended' PVP.

If you think changing the system to low sec during the Incursion, or suspending Concord, or setting up a set of rules that allow for random roaming gangs to Shoot at Incursion runners you are deluding yourself. If any of the above came true they would simply stop running Incursions.

Currently over 80% of the Runners I know take weeks off at a time and go into low sec or Nul sec and exclusively engage in PVP. The part that pisses most people off is when they are engaging in PVP they are organized, well equipped, competently commanded and not worried about losing their 100mil to 1 billion ISK ships. All of this is because they run Incursions, you want PVP go where the PVP is, adding the risk of inadvertent PVP will only result in no viable targets and, no ISK for the guys that actually fulfil your PVP dream.

This is planned for release in... whatever the August release is.

Talking icelandic development cycles, the next (proper) ieration can't take THAT long 8)

You really ought to learn your history, FYI all 4 t2 logi hull are used in incursion fleets, its just a fleet tends to either be armor tanked or shield tanked. Each logi is only really useful for one type of repping thus you only see two types in any one fleet.

If you mean people should be able to use t1 logi hulls you should look through tthe old at commentary - it was there that it was specifically said the t1 logi were not designed to be useable in incursions.

As for only using 3 pirate hulls thats because the pirate hulls are designed to have increased dps, surprise surprise people use them for precisely that. The 2 missile hulls are not used due to delayed damage application, the neuting hull is not used as neuts aren't relevant.

The suggestion to have more hull size gate restrictions is bloody stupid given the fact everyone is saying having to reship is one of the two reasons people don't do NCN's.

Or it could spawn a new community that is NCN only, similar to the Legion fleets that cleaned up the NCO's in VG systems a couple years ago.

Built and designed for only one thing, EVE has always rewarded the specialist and punished the generalist, this may be an opportunity to Specialize.