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Thorolfur Beck

Author
Ian Morbius
Robby Altair Corporation
#1 - 2014-06-22 20:57:44 UTC
Thorolfur Beck man of mystery.

Meet the Eve Online creator who CCP left behind

Yeah, you'll not find any insight of the gaming industry here.
Aspalis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-06-22 21:40:54 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRxHYHPzs7s

Marcus Gord: "Aspalis is an onion. Many layers, each one makes you cry."

Marsha Mallow
#3 - 2014-06-22 21:41:15 UTC
Interesting, thanks for relinking that.

Beck sounds like he was an arse and almost proudly announces it. Whatever the purpose of this article is, he appears to be raising his profile in part by smearing former colleagues, which is tacky. All those remarks about the past suggest he's grown up, but it doesn't come across that way. I particularly dislike the bit where he hopes Eve is quietly dying, it's spiteful.

The article writer comments his lack of invite to the 10th birthday celebration was 'petty' but the whole article reeks of pettiness. Would anyone invite someone to a party who was fired before launch and had a grudge like that? Actually the article is intriguingly phrased, the title says it all. He did leave CCP behind, and has no claim on their success or failure - particularly given he was fired and sold his stake. If he wants intellectual recognition, he should sue rather than whining on media sites. No sympathy from an Eve player if he isn't one of us, I really couldn't care less if he designed it in entirety.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Aspalis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-06-22 21:55:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Aspalis
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Interesting, thanks for relinking that.

Beck sounds like he was an arse and almost proudly announces it. Whatever the purpose of this article is, he appears to be raising his profile in part by smearing former colleagues, which is tacky. All those remarks about the past suggest he's grown up, but it doesn't come across that way. I particularly dislike the bit where he hopes Eve is quietly dying, it's spiteful.

The article writer comments his lack of invite to the 10th birthday celebration was 'petty' but the whole article reeks of pettiness. Would anyone invite someone to a party who was fired before launch and had a grudge like that? Actually the article is intriguingly phrased, the title says it all. He did leave CCP behind, and has no claim on their success or failure - particularly given he was fired and sold his stake. If he wants intellectual recognition, he should sue rather than whining on media sites. No sympathy from an Eve player if he isn't one of us, I really couldn't care less if he designed it in entirety.


Regarding the part he hopes EVE dies quietly, you should read that again but with your glasses on or ask someone with a better eye sight than you to read it loud for you - he hopes for Dust to die. Not EVE.

He is not entirely wrong either. Valkyrie is 'gimmicky' because relies on a device for the immersion and whilst immersive VR is a very neat concept, Valkyrie is a very simple game so.. meh?

Marcus Gord: "Aspalis is an onion. Many layers, each one makes you cry."

Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-06-22 22:12:26 UTC
It's quite interesting to know where EVE comes from. Elite MMO with a hint of UO.





Q: Should we be worried? A: Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.

Marsha Mallow
#6 - 2014-06-22 22:24:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsha Mallow
Aspalis wrote:
Regarding the part he hopes EVE dies quietly, you should read that again but with your glasses on or ask someone with a better eye sight than you to read it loud for you - he hopes for Dust to die. Not EVE.

He is not entirely wrong either. Valkyrie is 'gimmicky' because relies on a device for the immersion and whilst immersive VR is a very neat concept, Valkyrie is a very simple game so.. meh?


Actually I erh, do have glasses on, but that's bad because my contact lense prescription is more upto date than my glasses :P

Anyway

Quote:
Of CCP's output since he left, Beck isn't overly impressed. Eve's near-disastrous 2011 Incarna expansion he calls a "horrible deformity - a crazy idea from the start". In-development VR space shooter Valkyrie is "gimmicky" and Dust 514 "about as far from being a logical addition to Eve as can be imagined." With only the merest hint of bitterness he adds: "I'm sure it's dying quietly, or I hope so."

That's not a clear statement towards Dust tbh, he might be talking about "CCP's output since he left", which is... EvE. As I say the article is worded ambiguously in parts Blink

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Aspalis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-06-22 22:44:38 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Quote:
Of CCP's output since he left, Beck isn't overly impressed. Eve's near-disastrous 2011 Incarna expansion he calls a "horrible deformity - a crazy idea from the start". In-development VR space shooter Valkyrie is "gimmicky" and Dust 514 "about as far from being a logical addition to Eve as can be imagined." With only the merest hint of bitterness he adds: "I'm sure it's dying quietly, or I hope so."

That's not a clear statement towards Dust tbh, he might be talking about "CCP's output since he left", which is... EvE. As I say the article is worded ambiguously in parts Blink


While it is not as clear as it could have been. To me, it translates more into how critical he is of these projects that CCP cooks up and how CCP tries to shoehorn it into the EVE IP. Then there is the WoD MMO that CCP couldn't realize even after 7-8 years that ate up a lot of money and that led to people being fired.

Marcus Gord: "Aspalis is an onion. Many layers, each one makes you cry."

Marsha Mallow
#8 - 2014-06-22 23:24:14 UTC
Aspalis wrote:
While it is not as clear as it could have been. To me, it translates more into how critical he is of these projects that CCP cooks up and how CCP tries to shoehorn it into the EVE IP. Then there is the WoD MMO that CCP couldn't realize even after 7-8 years that ate up a lot of money and that led to people being fired.

None of which has anything to do with him. According to that article he was fired and sold his stake. So.... HTFU. Didn't he invent it? Does the timing of this article not strike you as odd? Whoever this person is, I'd have way more respect if he had come out at the point things were rosy and started an intellectual lawsuit - and won. But he can't, so he's bitching on a media site now things look bad, and twisting the knife. That's not altruistic. And don't ever tell me to learn how to read again, you pleb :)

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#9 - 2014-06-22 23:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Marsha Mallow wrote:
I particularly dislike the bit where he hopes Eve is quietly dying, it's spiteful.

I think he was speaking of Dust, actually. And then he goes on to say "I've always wished Eve and the company well.". But he certainly was upset with Dust, and I think that is more the point of his comment (didn't say "EVE") as his previous thought was speaking of Dust.

"Of CCP's output since he left, Beck isn't overly impressed. Eve's near-disastrous 2011 Incarna expansion he calls a "horrible deformity - a crazy idea from the start". In-development VR space shooter Valkyrie is "gimmicky" and Dust 514 "about as far from being a logical addition to Eve as can be imagined." With only the merest hint of bitterness he adds: "I'm sure it's dying quietly, or I hope so." "

Compressed paragraph, probably would make better sense if broken after "crazy idea from the start". Probably a quick rundown from interview notes, then compressed into a paragraph to give a quick overview to readers. The last comment was most likely just connected to the Dust comment from the interview, not in the same discussion line as EVE development. I think "I've always wished Eve and the company well." pretty much shows this is likely the writers improper use of paragraph structure regarding the comment in question.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Marsha Mallow
#10 - 2014-06-23 00:25:08 UTC
I'm not sure how you can separate a desire to see Dust to die "quietly", slamming a future Valk development as "gimmicky" as anything but an attack on CCP. Thing is, he left in 2002 according to that article. Before Beta. So... why should anyone give a toss what he thinks about CCP since he left? He didn't WORK there, and by the sounds of it isn't even a player. He wants concept recognition, AND to punish the existing team in some way, after being fired and bought out.
Quote:
He doesn't recall exactly why, only that he was "acting like a lunatic", throwing tantrums and threatening to fire anyone and everyone around him.

Oh and he has been developing a project of his own. Since 2007. Which is about to open offices ~ somewhere.

Perhaps I am misreading it. Overall it looks like the spite of a former employee who missed out, is only 'merely bitter', but is more than willing to try grab some exposure. Having your four year old daughter interrupt the interview is a nice, irrelevant touch. Presumably it's to demostrate maturity of some sort, but really it comes across as calculating. Having a child does not make you a nice person, or a better one, which is implied.

I'm sure jumping on bad press to get back at former colleagues and promote a future project is a tactical career move in the gamer development industry. It could also be how you put your credibility into the ground for being a whiny backstabber who has apparently had no input since 2002 and is still bleating about it, and has a project of their own which needs attention. And funding.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#11 - 2014-06-23 01:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Marsha Mallow wrote:
I'm not sure how you can separate a desire to see Dust to die "quietly", slamming a future Valk development as "gimmicky" as anything but an attack on CCP. Thing is, he left in 2002 according to that article. Before Beta. So... why should anyone give a toss what he thinks about CCP since he left? He didn't WORK there, and by the sounds of it isn't even a player. He wants concept recognition, AND to punish the existing team in some way, after being fired and bought out. .
Why, you have never seen that in EVE forums? You are in GD a lot, hard to imagine you'd miss that. Those that say they wish Dust to die, or is slowing dying, but at the same time having a positive view of EVE continuing and CCP continuing. It's been said many times in GD, hard to believe this is the first you have ever heard of such a position. And clearly, I see that in the interview, it was poorly written by the interviewer, he should re-edit for clarity. He was just speaking of Dust, not EVE and CCP.

And I think that the contradiction I mentioned clearly points out that fact. Just poor writing skills I guess, trying to give a brief overview from his notes and it all just ran together. I quite agree with him, regarding Dust and Incarna, and at the same time for the betterment of EVE and CCP. Oh and Valkyrie just being more gimmicky, sure. Even the mentioned Valkyrie and Dust were probably from different parts of the interview, all just smushed together in one short paragraph, trying to add more shock value after saying the ******* comments over and over to death. He was trying to put context into a short paragraph from various parts of his notes, it failed, it's not contiguous quotations.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-06-23 06:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Matilda Cecilia Fock
Marsha Mallow wrote:
I'm not sure how you can separate a desire to see Dust to die "quietly", slamming a future Valk development as "gimmicky" as anything but an attack on CCP. Thing is, he left in 2002 according to that article. Before Beta. So... why should anyone give a toss what he thinks about CCP since he left? He didn't WORK there, and by the sounds of it isn't even a player. He wants concept recognition, AND to punish the existing team in some way, after being fired and bought out.
Quote:
He doesn't recall exactly why, only that he was "acting like a lunatic", throwing tantrums and threatening to fire anyone and everyone around him.

Oh and he has been developing a project of his own. Since 2007. Which is about to open offices ~ somewhere.

Perhaps I am misreading it. Overall it looks like the spite of a former employee who missed out, is only 'merely bitter', but is more than willing to try grab some exposure. Having your four year old daughter interrupt the interview is a nice, irrelevant touch. Presumably it's to demostrate maturity of some sort, but really it comes across as calculating. Having a child does not make you a nice person, or a better one, which is implied.

I'm sure jumping on bad press to get back at former colleagues and promote a future project is a tactical career move in the gamer development industry. It could also be how you put your credibility into the ground for being a whiny backstabber who has apparently had no input since 2002 and is still bleating about it, and has a project of their own which needs attention. And funding.


He is not just a former employee.

He is the founder and first CEO of CCP, and also first lead designer and intellectual author of EVE's IP. You are playing his game, developed by his company, which he used to lead until he cracked under pressure and became a liability too soon to be properly credited and recognized.

That's how a creator looks like; not all are good businessmen and leaders, and yet you play EVE Online because this guy, of all people in the world, wanted a Elite MMO.

It's a kind of irony that an actual Elite MMO can be a nail in EVE's coffin.

BTW, Incarna as it turned was a unmitigated disaster... but adding avatars AND alternate types of gameplay to EVE was EVE's only hope for long term survival.

Also he is generous to consider that CCP was too ambitious with WoD, rather than just mismanaged the project.

Q: Should we be worried? A: Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-06-23 08:00:20 UTC
What strikes me the most is that Thorolfur Beck appears to be the very first bittervet to come out of EVE, even before the game was officially released.
And he's still bitter as f**k, even after all those years....
So in a way, we could also call him the spiritual father of kugu, FHC, zulu, etc....

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Aspalis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-06-23 09:04:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Aspalis
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Aspalis wrote:
While it is not as clear as it could have been. To me, it translates more into how critical he is of these projects that CCP cooks up and how CCP tries to shoehorn it into the EVE IP. Then there is the WoD MMO that CCP couldn't realize even after 7-8 years that ate up a lot of money and that led to people being fired.


None of which has anything to do with him. According to that article he was fired and sold his stake. So.... HTFU. Didn't he invent it? Does the timing of this article not strike you as odd? Whoever this person is, I'd have way more respect if he had come out at the point things were rosy and started an intellectual lawsuit - and won. But he can't, so he's bitching on a media site now things look bad, and twisting the knife. That's not altruistic. And don't ever tell me to learn how to read again, you pleb :)


So what? Even if he was pretty much ousted from the company and had nothing do with any of the projects that all range from just being a bad idea to being mindbogglingly stupid, I don't see how he couldn't be sentimental about things because he did help found CCP after all and it shouldn't surprise anyone if he wants the company to do well even if there is bitterness.

As for telling you to learn how to read, I don't ever recall telling you to learn how to read, I however remember telling you to "read that part again with your glasses on" which is a wholly different thing, yes? But seeing you struggle with the difference, you might as well learn how to read again, you colossal f**king idiot.

Marcus Gord: "Aspalis is an onion. Many layers, each one makes you cry."

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#15 - 2014-06-23 13:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Meh, couldn't care less about him, idea was Brabens from beginning. It was a matter of time if it will be made into MMORPG when these games started to become popular.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#16 - 2014-06-23 19:09:24 UTC
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
BTW, Incarna as it turned was a unmitigated disaster... but adding avatars AND alternate types of gameplay to EVE was EVE's only hope for long term survival.
Or look past the sales hype that we were all subjected to and recognize it for what it really was/is, just a platform for micro-transactions. And the way it was going, any "game" added to it (it has none) would have likely revolved around micro-transactions (as it still does), such as gambling etc. It's a cash game, period. A cash game in the industry (of all these newer fail games), it simply revolves around the micro-transaction, looking for the few (usually ages 18-25 statistically for undeveloped minds) weak people that cant control themselves and spend thousands of dollars, regardless of whether or not there is any actual game play. It's no secret, publishers/developers openly talk about it (skill game vs cash game), how to design it better for the big payout. CCP got caught up in it. Cha-ching! This guy, he looks to be more the old traditional developer, looking for the skill game, to build the better game, the [lost] art of game development.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2014-06-23 19:27:49 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
BTW, Incarna as it turned was a unmitigated disaster... but adding avatars AND alternate types of gameplay to EVE was EVE's only hope for long term survival.
Or look past the sales hype that we were all subjected to and recognize it for what it really was/is, just a platform for micro-transactions. And the way it was going, any "game" added to it (it has none) would have likely revolved around micro-transactions (as it still does), such as gambling etc. It's a cash game, period. A cash game in the industry (of all these newer fail games), it simply revolves around the micro-transaction, looking for the few (usually ages 18-25 statistically for undeveloped minds) weak people that cant control themselves and spend thousands of dollars, regardless of whether or not there is any actual game play. It's no secret, publishers/developers openly talk about it (skill game vs cash game), how to design it better for the big payout. CCP got caught up in it. Cha-ching! This guy, he looks to be more the old traditional developer, looking for the skill game, to build the better game, the [lost] art of game development.


You're talking about Incarna, but Ambulation was a different beast. Something went horribly wrong between 2007 and 2011.

This was Ambulation as we should have had it since 6 years ago.

Q: Should we be worried? A: Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#18 - 2014-06-23 20:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:


You're talking about Incarna, but Ambulation was a different beast. Something went horribly wrong between 2007 and 2011.

This was Ambulation as we should have had it since 6 years ago.
No I'm talking about game design, in a thread about a game designer. Get past the ancient sales hype... ? You are looking at the added platform of a cash game. Here I'll dig out a link, maybe you don't understand.. here, maybe it'll save you from being the next whale:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130626/194933/The_Top_F2P_Monetization_Tricks.php
As you may notice, some of that stuff went directly into Incarna. There was no "game" coming, it was a money scheme for the few that would hand over huge wads of money because they were just too weak to resist, too young, too naive. And a lot of game developers are under pressure to make these types of games or lose publishers and investors.

Like in a sub game such as this, you more or less have a fixed income. Especially during your run, it's not like pre-launch where you can speculate millions of players and entice investors, then launch a huge marketing campaign to spike subs at launch and get the micro-transaction ball rolling with claims of "success" and popularity. But even in those f2p games that over speculate while having lower activity numbers, they tend to still make the investors some money before shutting down the game, a more safe bet.

See, the EVE FiS won't work that way, not years after launch, so they introduce a new platform, one you 'cant live without', one based on avatars. Now through this new system, which was heavily hyped up with all sorts of promises, well income speculation was most likely very high, off those that are weak and cannot control themselves and their bank accounts, looking goood to investors. And then since there is no logical way to transform this sandbox game into a full blown f2p, you have the other games for CCP to develop that can take advantage of the cash game invention. And there you have it, what went wrong in ~"2007" and which was really more so industry wide.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#19 - 2014-06-23 20:51:37 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:

Oh and he has been developing a project of his own. Since 2007. Which is about to open offices ~ somewhere.

Oh and as for that, that's odd that the article doesn't mention the full story here either. I did about 15 minutes of research on the matter, so it wasn't hard to find, so for whatever reason left out of the article. Seriously, I don't think I'd ever let this guy interview me. The matter of the fact is when Iceland recently went through the financial crises, the bank collapse, the new company he founded, NARC, was forced to shut down. So whatever he was working on, that has been over with for quite some time. Yep, that article completely left that out. So yeah, easily set to draw your own conclusion the motive behind the interview, and what was said, how it was said, how ever inventively it may come.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#20 - 2014-06-23 21:32:49 UTC
It was poorly written, left a lot open for interpretation, and read like a backhand followed by a kiss and then another backhand. Amateur 'journalism' at its finest. As a side note it was overly verbose to say so little and then leave pertinent information about the guys current business shortcomings.
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