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Eve online as premium accounts and F2P accounts

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#21 - 2011-12-06 08:15:39 UTC

Quote:
Eve population i would say is steady. Its not really decreasing but not growing either.


I know you mean well, but this is not correct.

Since it's creation EVE has shown steady growth. The only time this trend faltered was after the Incarna expansion for obvious reasons, and it appears to already be recovering from that.

This type of steady growth in a single game, especially over such a long period of time, is virtually unheard of in the gaming industry.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Lexmana
#22 - 2011-12-06 08:19:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Zagdul wrote:

lol@ people saying no.

EVE is already F2P, it's just never been labeled as such.


F2P: Get a trial > grind up isk for plex > purchase and apply plex (making account a "paid" account") > always pay for account with plex.

Cash store: Buy GTC > Turn GTC into isk > buy what you want on the player run market.





Lol at your stupid.

But then again, what do you know about economy and how it works in EVE? I guess you would also be fine if there were only NPC buy/sell orders on the market so you could sell your loot and buy new ships/modules for your missions.


Edit: I might have misunderstood you and im sorry if i did. But there is a large difference between buying ISK with GTC on the market from players then from NPC buy/sell orders. The PLEX system is one brilliant move by CCP that actually works in the sandbox environment.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-12-06 08:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
Lexmana wrote:
Zagdul wrote:

lol@ people saying no.

EVE is already F2P, it's just never been labeled as such.


F2P: Get a trial > grind up isk for plex > purchase and apply plex (making account a "paid" account") > always pay for account with plex.

Cash store: Buy GTC > Turn GTC into isk > buy what you want on the player run market.





Lol at your stupid.

But then again, what do you know about economy and how it works in EVE? I guess you would also be fine if there were only NPC buy/sell orders on the market so you could sell your loot and buy new ships/modules for your missions.





Just because the market is player generated, doesn't make EVE any less free to play.



edit: I have _NEVER_ put real money into EVE.

However, many people I know have dumped hundreds of dollars into building big shiny ships for themselves to fly in. Even though those ships aren't purchased and created "out of thin air", the concept of injecting game currency into your wallet and making a purchase on a market makes the game F2P for the person making the transaction.

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CCP Please Implement
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#24 - 2011-12-06 08:26:04 UTC
Having developers spending time purely trying to work out ways to get the free-loaders to pay money is not something I would want to see happen in EVE.

As soon as any sort of F2P comes into the equation of a games development then you can bet pay-2-win will be following right along with it.


Regardless of anything else EVE would get meta gamed into oblivion if F2P was added. It would pretty much destroy the game. Also ultimately losing CCP money and their reputation along with it.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Lexmana
#25 - 2011-12-06 08:27:13 UTC
Zagdul wrote:

Just because the market is player generated, doesn't make EVE any less free to play.



Yeah, I can agree with that.
Belidos Goveko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-12-06 08:29:52 UTC
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:

As soon as any sort of F2P comes into the equation of a games development then you can bet pay-2-win will be following right along with it.


If so then why do almost none of the major F2P games (and i'm talking major games like aoc, dcu and lotro, not these little fly by night studios that produce manga style mmo's with F2P) have P2W items?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#27 - 2011-12-06 08:32:05 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Just because the market is player generated, doesn't make EVE any less free to play.
Nor does the existence of PLEX make EVE free to play — it is impossible to play EVE without a paid-for account, and this rather disqualifies it from the F2P status.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-12-06 08:43:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
Just because the market is player generated, doesn't make EVE any less free to play.
Nor does the existence of PLEX make EVE free to play — it is impossible to play EVE without a paid-for account, and this rather disqualifies it from the F2P status.


To the person making the transaction, it's no less F2P than any other F2P game on the market.

I'm not arguing your point, however.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#29 - 2011-12-06 08:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: KrakizBad
Zagdul wrote:
lol@ people saying no.

EVE is already F2P, it's just never been labeled as such.


F2P: Get a trial > grind up isk for plex > purchase and apply plex (making account a "paid" account") > always pay for account with plex.

Cash store: Buy GTC > Turn GTC into isk > buy what you want on the player run market.


for people who say it can't be done:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1253240&page=1#1

^^ That's me.


Learn how the markets work ffs
Prince Kobol
#30 - 2011-12-06 08:49:13 UTC
Belidos Goveko wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
No becuase this will create segeration in the eve community

Also play to win isnt my idea of fair.



I'm not advocating EVE going F2P, but this last statement although in one context is correct (P2W is unfair) in the general context of F2P is out of that context. Using and old internet meme ..

F2P=/=P2W

Free to play is completely different to Pay to win. If a F2P MmO is done preoperly there is nothing you can buy that will give you an advantage over others.

Take LotRO for example, there are no items (at least there wasn't any when i was playing) in the store that can give you a significant advantage over other players, there were minor stat enhancements and xp increases but they were very cheap, very limited and alternatives could be achieved by doing content in the game. The rest was all fluf like different styles of mounts and various wardrobe items.



Totally Wrong.

There are lots of items which give you an in game advantage.

Also games that go F2P are games which are failing.. i.e Lotro / DDO / Star Trek Online etc
Mahakaharashi RedEagle
Doomheim
#31 - 2011-12-06 08:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mahakaharashi RedEagle
Never say never. F2P, if done right, can bring a lot more money for CCP without screwing up overall game balance. Classic monthly-sub model becomes thing of the past anyway so I guess it's only a matter of time before CCP decides to move on.

Although something dramatical should happen first: either rapid decline in subscriptions, or CCP's disatisfaction with stagnating numbers and their current income.
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-12-06 08:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jace Errata
Valei Khurelem wrote:

People who want a game to play do not play Free to play games or use DLC content.

Quote:
or use DLC content

Quote:
DLC content

Quote:
DLC content

Lrn2abbreviation

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#33 - 2011-12-06 08:59:54 UTC
Belidos Goveko wrote:
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:

As soon as any sort of F2P comes into the equation of a games development then you can bet pay-2-win will be following right along with it.


If so then why do almost none of the major F2P games (and i'm talking major games like aoc, dcu and lotro, not these little fly by night studios that produce manga style mmo's with F2P) have P2W items?

Please tell me you are kidding. Your idea of pay-2-win items seems lacking.

LOTRO isn't pay-2-win you say, all the following are available in their cash shop and many of them exclusive to it:
- Store Pots (now PvP ones as well)
- Store Shield Spikes
- Store Extra Healing Pages
- Store DPS to Healing Pages
- Store Map for instant travel
- Store bought relics
and more.

Or even ones that people such as yourself would say 'but you can get it in-game', yeah with a 0.001% chance otherwise the developers wouldn't make money on the items if they dropped anywhere even close to frequently.

These are the reasons I have no time for F2P games because they are just full of this type of horseshit.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-12-06 09:00:22 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
lol@ people saying no.

EVE is already F2P, it's just never been labeled as such.


F2P: Get a trial > grind up isk for plex > purchase and apply plex (making account a "paid" account") > always pay for account with plex.

Cash store: Buy GTC > Turn GTC into isk > buy what you want on the player run market.


for people who say it can't be done:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1253240&page=1#1

^^ That's me.


Learn how the markets work ffs


How does EVE markets make EVE less F2P considering the only difference is that instead of going to a cash shop, I go to a player generated market?

While yes, people need to put the PLEX on the market, thus injecting game currency into their wallets by using RL money, it doesn't make eve less F2P because of it.


EVE is both F2P and Subscription based. I'm fully aware how the market works. Stop fooling yourself into thinking that EVE's game isn't also supported by a F2P contingency. It's part of what makes this game unique. It doesn't degrade EVE by admitting that if you decide to play EVE as a F2P game you can.

Even the way you subscribe to this game is a sandbox.


Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Valei Khurelem
#35 - 2011-12-06 09:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
@Jace Eratta

DLC stands for "Downloadable content" and it being used in that sentence is fine.

Learn to troll better.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-12-06 09:02:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
Prince Kobol wrote:
Belidos Goveko wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
No becuase this will create segeration in the eve community

Also play to win isnt my idea of fair.



I'm not advocating EVE going F2P, but this last statement although in one context is correct (P2W is unfair) in the general context of F2P is out of that context. Using and old internet meme ..

F2P=/=P2W

Free to play is completely different to Pay to win. If a F2P MmO is done preoperly there is nothing you can buy that will give you an advantage over others.

Take LotRO for example, there are no items (at least there wasn't any when i was playing) in the store that can give you a significant advantage over other players, there were minor stat enhancements and xp increases but they were very cheap, very limited and alternatives could be achieved by doing content in the game. The rest was all fluf like different styles of mounts and various wardrobe items.



Totally Wrong.

There are lots of items which give you an in game advantage.

Also games that go F2P are games which are failing.. i.e Lotro / DDO / Star Trek Online etc
Why are you only listing failing F2P games?

There are far more successful F2P games which you have not mentioned who continue to gain subscribers.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-12-06 09:03:59 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
@Jace Eratta

DLC stands for "Downloadable content" and it being used in that sentence is fine.

Learn to troll better.

"Downloadable content content"

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-12-06 09:05:44 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
@Jace Eratta

DLC stands for "Downloadable content" and it being used in that sentence is fine.

Learn to troll better.

I heard you like content, so I put some content in your content...

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Arttemis Prime
Financial tracking 01
#39 - 2011-12-06 09:08:07 UTC
Eve could never take on a F2P model.

The games you said have gone F2P are basically 'flat maps', and are divided into areas, which you can turn off and on my simply putting in a bit of code where an NPC lets you through or not. You generally pay for new areas, or earn new areas in these games, but this wouldnt translate in Eve... Paying or earning extra to enter low sec or 0.0, just wouldnt work.

The general F2P restrictions couldnt be done to Eve neither, generally in the games that go F2P have huge progressive tech trees, with 5-10 different armor types, with skills you can easily restrict. Yes in Eve you could restrict ships you can fly, skills you can train, but you couldnt really restrict someone from building or inventing certain things, as it just wouldnt work.

F2P also wouldnt be handled well by Eve at all, most MMO's that have gone F2P have seen a boost in numbers of between 3x and 5x, this last weekend gone we hit 50,000 online, having 250,000 online at the same time, would probably cause alot of things to melt.

The furthest F2P will get, is with extended trials, like the 60 day trials we are currently seeing.
Gerald Taric
NEO DYNAMICS
#40 - 2011-12-06 09:09:09 UTC
disliked

I personally hate the idea of F2P. I hate it very much. Going this way will pretty sure end up in selling important items for real money. --> "pay to win". Once the door is opened, the room will be entered.

Open up a game for "F2P" means, that you will cut cash receipts, which must be compensated somehow. What do you think what would happen? Selling unimportant "vanity items"? Forget it. In order to regain the lost income there needs to be some "force" towards the cusomers to give money in an other way. Therefore items would be offered , which you somehow *need*. I understood your idea of "slowing down skill learning". But i'm pretty sure there are some characters, which have been skilled for a special purpose. Once reached, you do not need to learn more skills on them. Or it does not really matter, how fast they learn their new skills.

I prefer to pay a constant fee, and never again to think about it, because i can reach and gain everything in the game without any further real money investment.

Please burry the idea of "EVE going F2P", burry it deep, and never exhume it again. Thank you.