EVE General Discussion

Yes, but I also took pains to explain these views are my own - not representative of CODE, James 315, or even gankers in general. People seem quite eager to attribute my own motivations to others. Probably just forum metagaming.

When it comes to hostility levels, CODE membership in particular is downright pollyanna-ish. They keep things quite clean, good natured, and 'all in good fun'.

You want depraved? Look no further than Istyn. Or Skippermonkey. Or anyone remotely associated with ex-Tactical Knightmare.
I swear, I am still recovering from naively clicking links they posted into TEARS alliance chat........3 years ago.

I feel you are very mistaken here.

The goal (at least personally) is not to "drive them out of the game" - and I personally don't know anyone who has that goal.

As for a "miner" not being able to do anything - this is just self imposed misery.

The mistake I find many people who label themselves as "miners" make is pretty common - lack of diversity. Any player is free to do *anything* in this game, we don't have "character classes" as games like World Of Warcraft do. When a player decides to force a "character class" on himself - he is making one of the most classic mistakes anyone can make while playing EVE - he is playing by rules that the game does not recognize and expecting the entire game to somehow magically adapt to that style of thinking.

So, let's drop the labels that we make up for ourselves like "miner" and "ganker" from this conversation for a second, just for the sake of argument - and just replace them with "Player" - it just makes a lot more sense.

Your statement of:

"At least miners are honest about not wanting to be blown and stop handing money to CCP, whereas gankers disguise their activity as if it was something else than playing a videogame"

Changes to (And I am going to replace "blown" with something a bit more descriptive while still preserving the feeling you were trying to get across, at least, I hope so!)

"At least some players are honest about their decision to play EVE in a very specific and self-imposed manner and as a result end up feeling cheated out of their subscription fee, and as as result they stop handing money to CCP, whereas some other players disguise their activity as if it was something else then playing a videogame"

See where I am going with this?

If the self-imposed way that a player chooses to interact with the game client leaves that player feeling like they should not remain a paying customer - I only see two places any player of EVE online can go from there, and I don't care what that player decides to call themselves - miner, ganker, pirate, explorer, president of Jita, salvager, fedo wrangler, etc...

1) Stop paying CCP and quit EVE online. Admit they are not having fun when they play EVE, and since this is a video game and the goal of any video game is to provide enjoyment to the player - and that paying for a video game that is totally not fun at all is probably a bit silly. Perhaps a non-sandbox MMO with very defined roles is better for this player, and there's no shame in that. EVE is not for everyone.

2) Reconsider the way they are playing EVE and give other ways of playing a shot and see if they are enjoyable and result in the player having fun. Try new things. Get creative!

I would recommend that anyone who is thinking about dropping their subscription give the second option a shot before quitting, as I think EVE is a pretty awesome game and that there is a TON of video game fun to be had here.

Not having fun calling yourself a "Miner" and being engaged in combat by other players? Keep calling yourself a "Miner" but also start calling yourself a "Internet Spaceship Configuration Expert". Spend a bit of your playtime learning a lot about how to fit ships in creative ways that will boost your experience during the times when you are being a "Miner". You may find that during this process you have fun getting good at how to configure internet spaceships to excel at a specific task and that it opens up other things you might want to look at and do.

Take it further. Call yourself an "Amature Internet Spaceship Combat Wizard" and build up a bunch of cheap T1 frigates and head out somewhere and engage in some combat with other players. You might have fun! Even if you don't have fun, the experiences you have will prove useful when you go back to being a "Miner" or a "Internet Spaceship Construction Expert." EVE is a sandbox, make the rules up as you go! You are only limited by game mechanics and the limits you decide you place on yourself.

In closing, EVE is a video game. It's about having fun. That's the purpose. If you talk to a bunch of players who are having a LOT of fun playing EVE - I think you might find that a lot of them will tell you that trying a bunch of things out and learning as much as you can about the game mechanics has resulted in them having a ton of fun playing EVE. I can't imagine how anyone would have fun by calling themselves a "miner", remaining totally ignorant of any game mechanic that does not seem like it is part of their decision to call themselves a "miner" and then getting upset that things are not working out the way that player thinks they should.

I hope this post may help a few "miners" out there who are not having fun. Don't quit, just embrace the sandbox and the concept of emergent gameplay and stop ruining your own Eve experience by falling into the classic EVE trap of thinking that whatever title you have decided to call yourself actually affects game mechanics in any way.

Please read the entirety of the post above yours.

If you still feel the same after reading all of it, then I sincerely wish you luck in attempting to make the title of this game change to "EvE: The Totally Safe Game of Mining"


EDIT: DJE, I think that your post should be adopted by CCP as part of the EVE Wiki or at least be enshrined somewhere for everyone to read. I wish a Dev had posted it

Bullshit argument?

I mine, I use a bricktank Procurer to do so, I don't have a mining permit, I have my overview set up to highlight known ganking groups, and above all I don't go AFK.

Would you like to know how many ships I've lost while mining in this way?

None, nada, zero, nil.

That's the thing, only a minority of miners will actually take precautions, because they're lazy, ignorant or dumb, or any combination thereof. Because people refuse to take precautions the ganking won't stop, meanwhile I'll be giggling like a schoolgirl while all the people who don't take precautions explode around me, then I'll loot the gankers wrecks and give them their modules back, because I can, because I survived due to the precautions I take.

that is not what he said.

It still does not stop you from being blown up. Gankers will always be there, and preying on the weakest, most of the time. Telling people if you don't want to get ganked then TANK TANK TANK. is total bullshit.

that's exactly what he said. he didn't say it would certainly stop you from being blown up.

"if you don't want to get ganked, tank you ship" is excellent advice. i think you owe jonah an apology.

I am not asking for change in EVE. I have nothing against gankers. I'm just saying some of their arguments are wrong. simple as

Agents of the New Order of Highsec are infallible ofc but not all gankers are Agents

OK. Fine. Don't tank! I really don't care one way or the other.

Seems to me an EHP tank would work better than a whine tank, simply because it increases the number of gankers required to make a kill. Which makes it more likely that sufficient DPS is not available to knock out your right away. Also, larger numbers of gankers tend to be more conspicuous.

But perhaps you know something I don't.


EDIT: Wow, that post was really waving a red cape in front of a bull, wasn't it?

quoted you but for all above.

Tanking is a good idea, Not being AFK is a good idea. Yes it lessens the chances of being ganked, but does not stop you from being ganked.