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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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More high slots for Orca and Rorqual

Author
Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
#1 - 2014-06-07 14:12:32 UTC
I have seen complaints about Orca and Rorqual. People use them in pos and don't bring them to belts. Queston remains why would anyone want to bring Orca or Rorqual to belts?

Orca has 3 high slots and Rorqual has 6. They can use 3 gang links leaving Orca with zero available high slots. These ships could salvage and loot NPC pirate ships in belts. This means salvagers and tractor beams. They could also do scanning. Rorqual also gets boost to capital remote shield booster range (eats high slots). Orca could get boost to large remote shield booster range.

I propose that both Orca and Rorqual gets 8 high slots. Orca and Rorqual have zero turrets that makes these high slots utility slots.

Orca and Rorqual could also receive huge boost to drone mining yield so they could be more effective in mining also.

Comments are welcome for my ideas.

Mikhem

Link library to EVE music songs.

Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#2 - 2014-06-07 15:22:46 UTC
I'd say 8 slots is overkill for their roles. But 4 or 5 highslots for Orca, I certainly wouldn't mind
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#3 - 2014-06-07 15:29:51 UTC
Only if the rest stays unchanged.

I don't want highslots at the cost of something else.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#4 - 2014-06-07 15:30:58 UTC
Agreed with previous poster, 8 slots is over kill for the Orca, 5 or 6 would be about right(3 ganglinks, Salvager, Tractor + 1 other Utility).

8 for Rorq is probably about right, 3 ganglinks, Siege Module, Clone Vat Bay, Salvager, Capital Tractor + 1 Other Utility High
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#5 - 2014-06-09 15:06:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Mikhem wrote:
I have seen complaints about Orca and Rorqual. People use them in pos and don't bring them to belts. Queston remains why would anyone want to bring Orca or Rorqual to belts?

Orca has 3 high slots and Rorqual has 6. They can use 3 gang links leaving Orca with zero available high slots. These ships could salvage and loot NPC pirate ships in belts. This means salvagers and tractor beams. They could also do scanning. Rorqual also gets boost to capital remote shield booster range (eats high slots). Orca could get boost to large remote shield booster range.

I propose that both Orca and Rorqual gets 8 high slots. Orca and Rorqual have zero turrets that makes these high slots utility slots.

Orca and Rorqual could also receive huge boost to drone mining yield so they could be more effective in mining also.

Comments are welcome for my ideas.


Well, I do bring my Orca to belts and am using the 3 high slots for warefarelink mods, I use the MTU to drag the containers to me, use salavge drones for their inteded purpose and rep and light drones also. That said I would not mind more high slots ... though I think it hardly necessarry.

The things I miss on the Orca for instance are like:
+25-75 more bandwidth (but can be mitigated by using a mobile depot)
+300% to mining drone yield (which would make it competeable with other miners, but would keep em 1,5 drone loads under a skilled out mackinaw in 180 sec)
+10% ore hold capacity per level (instead of cargo hold)

I would take that orca to the belt anytime, since I am not wasting a miner slot with that pilot under 6 fleet members anymore and can stay a bit longer and be more versatile with support and guard drones too.

Sadly I don' think this will come with the T2 Orca that was mentioned....

Edit: My first objection was actually, that you would destroy command ships, the I thought, well they can use only 3 anyway, but completely dismissed the command modules while looking at them. Idea My mind must have been blank for a second there.

Arrow You cannot have more high slots on either or it would invalidate all command ships, which require much more training investment and would unbalance the whole 'shabang'!! There is no way around it, I would exploit that, everyone would, its simply impossible as long as there are such vessels, period! Attention


The only real 'fix' would be, like I mentioned the +300% mining yield boost for mining drones. Even my other 'nice' suggestions can be achieved by active game play and would be essentially unnecessary.

I could do with an industrial sized ore hauler though, something like the size of the orca, with like 1000m3 cargo hold but 150.000 ore hold +20% per level - to fill the gab between the Miasmos 64.000m3 and a norma freighter 750.000m3. But that is a new ship ,).
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
#6 - 2014-06-09 18:51:42 UTC
Why would you leave an orca out of your mining operation, that makes no sense. They were some of the most tank-able hi-sec ships in the game pre-Kronos, and with the advent of hull rigs, have probably the heaviest tank in the game, hi-sec of course.

While I haven't mined in over a year, my old mining corp ran dual orcas in mining ops, one for for cargo/speed, the other tanked and fitted for ore transfer and boosting. Now I've heard this method has changed to an orca and freighter, but I fail to see why the boost and transfer orca is not needed. Last I looked a freighter can't fit a tractor beam...
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#7 - 2014-06-13 00:47:17 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Mikhem wrote:
I have seen complaints about Orca and Rorqual. People use them in pos and don't bring them to belts. Queston remains why would anyone want to bring Orca or Rorqual to belts?

Orca has 3 high slots and Rorqual has 6. They can use 3 gang links leaving Orca with zero available high slots. These ships could salvage and loot NPC pirate ships in belts. This means salvagers and tractor beams. They could also do scanning. Rorqual also gets boost to capital remote shield booster range (eats high slots). Orca could get boost to large remote shield booster range.

I propose that both Orca and Rorqual gets 8 high slots. Orca and Rorqual have zero turrets that makes these high slots utility slots.

Orca and Rorqual could also receive huge boost to drone mining yield so they could be more effective in mining also.

Comments are welcome for my ideas.


Well, I do bring my Orca to belts and am using the 3 high slots for warefarelink mods, I use the MTU to drag the containers to me, use salavge drones for their inteded purpose and rep and light drones also. That said I would not mind more high slots ... though I think it hardly necessarry.

The things I miss on the Orca for instance are like:
+25-75 more bandwidth (but can be mitigated by using a mobile depot)
+300% to mining drone yield (which would make it competeable with other miners, but would keep em 1,5 drone loads under a skilled out mackinaw in 180 sec)
+10% ore hold capacity per level (instead of cargo hold)

I would take that orca to the belt anytime, since I am not wasting a miner slot with that pilot under 6 fleet members anymore and can stay a bit longer and be more versatile with support and guard drones too.

Sadly I don' think this will come with the T2 Orca that was mentioned....

Edit: My first objection was actually, that you would destroy command ships, the I thought, well they can use only 3 anyway, but completely dismissed the command modules while looking at them. Idea My mind must have been blank for a second there.

Arrow You cannot have more high slots on either or it would invalidate all command ships, which require much more training investment and would unbalance the whole 'shabang'!! There is no way around it, I would exploit that, everyone would, its simply impossible as long as there are such vessels, period! Attention


The only real 'fix' would be, like I mentioned the +300% mining yield boost for mining drones. Even my other 'nice' suggestions can be achieved by active game play and would be essentially unnecessary.

I could do with an industrial sized ore hauler though, something like the size of the orca, with like 1000m3 cargo hold but 150.000 ore hold +20% per level - to fill the gab between the Miasmos 64.000m3 and a norma freighter 750.000m3. But that is a new ship ,).

Yeah, I see what you mean, even with the lack of +3% bonus to warfare links. (+15% bonus)
But maybe, if it's given +2/3 highs, change the role bonus to: Can use 3 Mining Foreman Links modules simultaneously. Is there anyone using warfare links on the Orca?
Also, what stops any command ship from using 5+ links any more than the Orca?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8 - 2014-06-13 00:55:03 UTC
ive used warfare links on an orca.

dnt think extra highslots would imbalance that though. Also dnt think the extra high slots are necessary, the cap use link is rarely used.

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Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2014-06-13 02:05:01 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
ive used warfare links on an orca.

dnt think extra highslots would imbalance that though. Also dnt think the extra high slots are necessary, the cap use link is rarely used.

It may become more pertinent with the Kronos changes to mining laser RoF
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2014-06-13 02:49:27 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:

Arrow You cannot have more high slots on either or it would invalidate all command ships, which require much more training investment and would unbalance the whole 'shabang'!! There is no way around it, I would exploit that, everyone would, its simply impossible as long as there are such vessels, period! Attention

So set a command link limit and don't allow them to use the command link increasing mid slot item.
That's easy to deal with. Yes, it would force you to trade off what links you put on them, but that would keep command ships & T3's in place.
ashley Eoner
#11 - 2014-06-13 04:08:53 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
ive used warfare links on an orca.

dnt think extra highslots would imbalance that though. Also dnt think the extra high slots are necessary, the cap use link is rarely used.

My standard orca setup for a long time was the mining laser range/cycle links with the shield harmonizer. The mining cap link is useless..
Coyote Laughing
#12 - 2014-06-22 11:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Coyote Laughing
I agree that adding more high slots is going to be problem if you can fit command processors.

I'm not sure giving it a logistics bonus is going to be a good idea if it is already tight on high slots.

I think 4 high slots is a good number - it's one more for the tractor beam so it can grab cans from miners parked more than 2500m away.

What you could then do is give it a drone logistic bonus and increase the drone bay capacity to say 200m3, but keep a 50 Mbit bandwidth.

A drone speed bonus and control range bonus would also be useful, so it wouldn't favour sentry drones as much - one of the biggest bug bears with drone mining is the time spent travelling and recalling them when you/they get attacked.

You could also allow +1 to the control limit for each level in Advanced Drone Interfacing, which would actually mean the skill would become useful in hisec - while still allowing it to increase the mining yield (and giving less advantage for using Geckos).

l8r \o/

Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#13 - 2014-06-22 11:59:43 UTC
Very unimaginative and uniformed post, here is why.

Coyote Laughing wrote:
...
I'm not sure giving it a logistics bonus is going to be a good idea if it is already tight on high slots.

The high slots is what you make out of them, I use not more then one mining link, which is all you need for active mining and who says that only one orca or one command ship can be in a fleet?

Coyote Laughing wrote:
...I think 4 high slots is a good number - it's one more for the tractor beam so it can grab cans from miners parked more than 2500m away.
Ever heard of an MTU ? There is absolutely no need for a tractor beam on an orca anymore. And the basic MTU range is 125km, not to mention that we got new meta versions now.

Coyote Laughing wrote:
...What you could then do is give it a drone logistic bonus and increase the drone bay capacity to say 200m3, but keep a 50 Mbit bandwidth.
You do realize, that with a deployed MD you practically can have 80.000m3 drone bay, right ?

Coyote Laughing wrote:
...A drone speed bonus and control range bonus would also be useful, so it wouldn't favour sentry drones as much - one of the biggest bug bears with drone mining is the time spent travelling and recalling them when you/they get attacked.

Max distance of roids from any belt center is about 25 km .. that's 50 sec max, and if you have to mine with you drones that far out you are doing something really, really wrong.

Coyote Laughing wrote:
You could also allow +1 to the control limit for each level in Advanced Drone Interfacing, which would actually mean the skill would become useful in hisec - while still allowing it to increase the mining yield (and giving less advantage for using Geckos).

Though 10 drones or even 25 mining drones would make an Orca look a 'mighty whale' of ore hauler, its never going to happen, that's what the increased mining drone yield is for that I suggested further up, you do read previous posts right ?
Coyote Laughing
#14 - 2014-06-22 12:04:37 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Very unimaginative and uniformed post, here is why.

(SNIP)

Though 10 drones or even 25 mining drones would make an Orca look a 'mighty whale' of ore hauler, its never going to happen, that's what the increased mining drone yield is for that I suggested further up, you do read previous posts right ?


Yes, I read it - I don't necessarily agree with it and may have a different vision.

Are you telling me nobody in this game has their own agenda when they form their opinions?

l8r \o/

Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#15 - 2014-06-22 12:22:28 UTC
Coyote Laughing wrote:
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Very unimaginative and uniformed post, here is why.

(SNIP)

Though 10 drones or even 25 mining drones would make an Orca look a 'mighty whale' of ore hauler, its never going to happen, that's what the increased mining drone yield is for that I suggested further up, you do read previous posts right ?


Yes, I read it - I don't necessarily agree with it and may have a different vision.

Are you telling me nobody in this game has their own agenda when they form their opinions?


There are many opinions, and many tastes, many habits and many a great other things, but there are only very few facts and usually, if you really look hard mostly just one truth and only one reasonable conclusion..
Doesn't mean I have to like it, doesn't mean I have to abide by it, but I have to acknowledge it and act like a silly child with fingers in my ears or like and ignorant moron that accuses others of ignorance towards his ignorance to turn the tide and just be right.

As an example: If you can turn the 75 m3 drone bay on an orca with a depot into a 80.000m3 drone bay, that's a fact, the conclusion is simple, your opinion is yours. Still crying for a 200m3 drone bay shows you being uninformed or ignorant, you can still discuss its value, but don't complain if someone calls you out on it.

And to the ISD it will look like we are personally fighting over multiple threads. And not to end up with platitudes I really need to leave now.
Dally Lama
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-06-22 19:52:22 UTC
They'd have to restrict Command Processors from being fit to the Orca/Rorq for me to get on board. Else, the suggestions of 5/6 and 8 seem fine.
Inshallah Eichman
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2014-06-22 22:27:22 UTC
The Orca is one of the most versatile, useful, and powerful ships in the game. It is among the last that need to be altered to make them better in any way.

It's use for mining requires a number of ships that would benefit enough for the Orca to be there in place of another miner.

Drones don't need to travel fast from an Orca.

The guy who mentioned excluding command processors is totally correct in my opinion, as well. I already run warfare links on an Orca.

Mining bonus to drones that was significant enough may just cause me to mine in my Orca, even solo. I would love to do that but honestly, it seems a little over the top.

I also use the Orca logistically in missions but only when I run several accounts. It can save downtime by repairing your drones and charging your caps/shields, etc. It isn't as fast as a real logi but it has an enormous amount of space for your loot, and its tractor beam bonus makes cleaning house far faster than many other ships could.