EVE General Discussion

I agree. Those players should swap to a procurer or skiff and replace the mining upgrades in the lows and scan modules with tank and suffer the lower income.

Just saying for a normal mining fleet op in safer space where ganking is rare your income is likely to be higher just wearing the loss. PROVIDING you have a spare barge sitting aside or the ISK for one so the loss does not interfere with the ops.

Huger orgasms - as if it's relevant and gives my life purpose. We all need purpose in life after all, and if I cant get satisfaction from my own meager existence, well then I can get joy from ruining someones else's day, week or month, if only for a moment. But, as EVE is set up to protect players by the system, the system always falls short and protects no one. Poor game design, which is why I don't mine etc. And not just miners, go after explorers now since the Odyssey release, CCP trivialized it into gank bait too, so take advantage of it and get those noobs to ragequit. Serious, kill 'em all. Then, if you can find their clone station, spawn camp them until they ragequit. Just go away.

No, it's the same crap that Richard Garriott tried to set up, then quit developing and went to a protectorate system, and everyone copies it that does such a system with similarities. Same crap, same fail. This should all have been tooled for alliances to sort out, not crappy hand coded Barny the dinosaur systems that amount to nothing. CONCORD and all that crap means nothing. No matter how much hand holding you put into the system it will always fail since it has nothing to do with a real sandbox system. It will always fail. Best off just to hunt down the weak, they provide no other benefit to the strong or the whole.

Not really, since Miniluv secretly keeps a list of all Goon neutral haulers and doesn't attack them. Unlike FCon freighters.

Oh I totally respect that he's willing to admit it. A rare bit of honesty you don't see often....


I just think his life might be better if he put that energy towards something a little more productive :P It's his life though.

Looks like there have been a few comments on my earlier post.

I'll address some of them.

Some people seem to want to question my personal life.

I'm a mid-30's civil engineer. I work anywhere from 70 to 100 hours a week during the construction season, mostly on arctic US Military installations, or hard-rock mining operations.

During the winter off-season I live in Scandinavia. I indulge my interest in history by roadtripping in a beat-ass Chevy van, exploring the entire continent. Last year the theme was U-Boats. Two years ago it was the English Civil War and Oliver Cromwell. Year before that, I drove to Serbia to learn something about the culture and conflict that has plagued the region. I enjoy reading about lost causes, curious about the people who fight for them - and why. "Bill the Butcher" in Scorsese's Gangs of New York is probably my favorite Hollywood villain.

When I'm not working or traveling (feeding $10/gallon Euro gasoline into an old V-8 is pricey, after all) - I sometimes play computer games - mostly simulators or EVE.

You can call me a lot of things, but 'basement dweller' likely isn't accurate.

I'm also not afraid to post with my main. (unless HW is forum-banned )
Or particularly concerned if some online nut somehow works out my RL identity.
I'm highly nomadic, keep my financial entanglements on a cash-only basis - and carry concealed when not on a federal installation. Good luck, psychos.


Other gankers/CODE associates that seem concerned that its 'bad PR':

I quite clearly stated in my post that, I don't consider CODE or Ero1 to share my goals in this respect. Perhaps I should have bolded it.

To extend the thought - I've interacted with a large number of them frequently enough to know that they are simply looking to have a good time. At miners' expense, yes - but all in all, seems quite good natured - and carebears are regularly recruited into the fold.

Also, when I say 'carebear' I don't mean, specifically, a player that mines, trades or runs missions. I've openly admitted, that while I love Tornados, Taloses and Cats, but I spend more far time in a Jump Freighter. Ganking is more expensive than it used to be, and requires a pretty sturdy logistical tail, to boot.

"Carebear" is more of a convenient shorthand for an entitled, dependent mindset that I cannot stand. Instead of adapting or fighting back, they scream, cry and call for CCP to change the conditions of the game to make their life easier and/or remove the threat. I will always maintain that EVE is a better place when these sorts are gone - even if it means fewer subscriptions in the short-run. Most importantly, I only used in-game methods to evict them.

Take Ripard Teg. He certainly participated in PVP and nulsec pursuits. Instead of dealing with Ero1 using in-game tools, he leveraged his position as a highly visible CSM member to have CCP lower the banhammer and remove what he found objectionable. The very definition of 'carebear', exactly the sort of person I want out of EVE permanently.

On the other hand, a podded miner that laughs and proceeds to 'up his game' - well, I have nothing but respect for those players and think EVE needs more of them. Or at least, I want the EVE player-base to contain a higher % of them.


Why am I so hostile towards CCP?
I feel that they have already made the decision to cater to the 'carebear' subtype I despise, while giving mere lip service to the rest. No amount of DEV doubletalk and advertising can convince me otherwise - because their actions and patches are the only thing that matters.

Further, CCP is a private company. They don't respond to threadnaughts, petitions, or well-written blogs. They respond to money. Nothing gets their attention quicker than a loss of subscriptions and revenue. We've seen this during Incarna.

As a consumer - there isn't really much I can do about it, and I accept that.
I'm a good, red-blooded free-market kind of guy. EVE is private property, I have no 'rights', can be banned at any time, for any reason - EULA or no.


So, what can I do?
-I can keep feeding CCP and complain about it.
-OR, I could quit - stop feeding CCP, and have a very minor impact.

But there is a third option:
What if one can leverage in-game resources in a way that convinces OTHER people to unsubscribe?
Wouldn't that have a larger impact on CCP? In my case, yes.

When I was highly active, between several ganking alts - I estimate that I've only killed around 1800 Exhumers/pods. Many of them redundant, however - multiple Exhumers belonging to one character. Almost all 'customers' were added to my addressbook for further observations and future attacks. This way, one quickly notices when players simply stop logging in on a regular basis. While it is impossible to know the precise reasons for an account going dormant, I guesstimate that I was responsible, or partially responsible for at least 100-120 dropped accounts over a period of 2-3 years.

And yeah, one hundred dead accounts isn't going to break CCP - but it is certainly more satisfying, 'fun' way to get your message across. A lost cause, perhaps.

TBH, EVE does half the work for you. Eve has a punishing learning curve. Bear-type players at a certain point along that curve (a few months) are highly likely just to throw up their hands and give up. The trick is to just make it seem hopeless. Miners, especially, tend to have a very limited support network to draw on, and many are already quite bored shooting at rocks. It doesn't take much of a setback to convince them to spend their time and money elsewhere.

Sometimes bruised carebears, like a stray, will reach out to you. Chat or EVEmail, looking for an alternative. To their credit, CODE tends to take strays in and rehabilitate them, show them a new way to play.

I generally don't have the time or energy for that.

Keeping an eye out for gankers when I'm mining is the only thing that keeps mining interesting.

If the pirates ever stopped sending suicide squads to High sec miners, I'd find it so boring that I'd quit.

Speaking for myself, that whole incident was just tacky. I'd argue that it was over the line in that getting pictures of people undermines their anonymity (Even if their faces were blurred), and there are too many ways that could end badly outside of the game client, and game meta.

I do agree however, with your assessment about the validity of claims of "psychological torture" and "cyber-bullying."

I am an avid supporter of ganking anything and everything, even for no reason.
I personally run my own gank corporation with 5 other active players. We gank various ship types several times a week.
I thought it was wrong for Ero1 to be banned and I thought the sohkar sound clip was hilarious.
If someone thinks they have the right to not be attacked in EVE, I don't mind if they quit the game.
If someone threatens another players because they attakced them in EVE, I don't mind if they quit the game.

With all that said, I find Herr's opinion on these matters to be rather.... suspect. Yes, I'm being kind.

A fully grown adult should never be using his leisure time for the sole purpose of making other fully grown adults upset and frustrated during their leisure time. That is not what a well-adjusted individual would do. You could have a wife, 3 kids, and the best job in the world... it wouldn't change that fact.

If you have this one miner that won't stop sperging, sure, make his New Eden life a living hell. It seems Herr has instead ignorantly grouped the entirely of a subset of players into one group, and has no issue griefing the entire group out of the game.

That is wrong and pretty much shameful. Have some respect and you might find many of these players are in fact willing to adjust to the nature of EVE once they properly understand it.

Thanks for the reply. I can respect that opinion. Pictures do have the ability to undermine the anonymous nature of EVE interactions. Having an anonymous avatar is critical - its the barrier that allows individuals indulge their anti-social impulses in a 'make-believe' setting.

I also agree that those posts likely will be culled. I'm sure they'll find some way to justify it.
Spend 45 minutes trying to write something of a higher quality and some ISD will come along and wipe it away in 30 seconds.

I generally try not to open myself up to having my forum-time 'ganked' in that way, but figured I should expound a bit after noticing a fair amount of back-and-forth regarding my previously expressed opinion.

Also, none of this is new. Have expressed in public my opinions on the matter many times in the past. Most of these activities occured years ago. Wasn't banned then, and unless CCP's enforcement policy has become far more radical than I currently believe it is, won't be now.

Of course, I still have the inclination to pursue my goals - just not the time to do it properly.
Mostly I live vicariously through www.minerbumping.com, watching with interest and even casually participate in CODE's activities from time to time. Suddenly Ninjas/TEARS also seems to be a bit more active than a couple years ago.