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Hybrid use for L4s
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Xoceac
Incursion Supplies
Gluten Free Cartel
#1 - 2014-06-18 21:36:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Xoceac
To make a long story short, I am unable to find a good Hybrid boat (preferably Rails) that can out-DPS my Navy Scorpion atm. After I was finished doing incursions and found a great corp to have fun with, I played around with blaster fits for both the Ferox and the Moa and found out that they were great boats for gunnery. (I did everything with missiles before incursions)

My scorpion has 851 DPS, without implants, but with faction damage mods + 93 dps with Hobs IIs. The scorpion can also fit a Drone Link Augmentor T2, 3 target painters, booster with shield boost amp, AB and 3 missile rigs without a problem. The problem is, I have two implants for hybrid damage, one for large hybrids and one for all hybrids.

Rokh, can't even match my scorp atm.
Megathron, not really a PVE boat. Tried it in EFT and it failed.
Magathron Navy Issue, still the best one, but less DPS and can't fit a Drone Link Aug.
Vindicator, made for blasters, not enough CPU for any tank. (minus the shield booster)
Dominix, can't fit the T2 rails, doesn't have enough PWG.

Is it really that hard or am I overlooking something? Maybe doing something horribly wrong? I have no idea.

Edit: How about the eagle?
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-06-18 21:52:43 UTC
I personally hate DLA's being highslot modules. Every other weapon system gets range by using a mid or lowslot or rig which feels fine but for drones they can't even target your target unless you sacrifice a highslot? Eh. I'm not sure about the original design decision to limit drone range to 60km and require a highslot module to extend them further.

As to your question, check the kronos I guess. A Domi Navy issue really should be able to do it though, try a PWG rig. No pyfa on this comp or I would help you more.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-06-18 21:55:45 UTC
Xoceac wrote:
To make a long story short, I am unable to find a good Hybrid boat (preferably Rails) that can out-DPS my Navy Scorpion atm. After I was finished doing incursions and found a great corp to have fun with, I played around with blaster fits for both the Ferox and the Moa and found out that they were great boats for gunnery. (I did everything with missiles before incursions)

My scorpion has 851 DPS, without implants, but with faction damage mods + 93 dps with Hobs IIs. The scorpion can also fit a Drone Link Augmentor T2, 3 target painters, booster with shield boost amp, AB and 3 missile rigs without a problem. The problem is, I have two implants for hybrid damage, one for large hybrids and one for all hybrids.

Rokh, can't even match my scorp atm.
Megathron, not really a PVE boat. Tried it in EFT and it failed.
Magathron Navy Issue, still the best one, but less DPS and can't fit a Drone Link Aug.
Vindicator, made for blasters, not enough CPU for any tank. (minus the shield booster)
Dominix, can't fit the T2 rails, doesn't have enough PWG.

Is it really that hard or am I overlooking something? Maybe doing something horribly wrong? I have no idea.


Dominix is a 100 percent drone ship. It no longer gives any bonus to any type of turret.

The best choice for hybrids would be the Kronos. It's close up DPS is decent but with rails sucks

Xoceac
Incursion Supplies
Gluten Free Cartel
#4 - 2014-06-18 21:59:30 UTC
The DPS on the Kronos is by far the best, has a lot of high utilities and a decent amount of low slots. Still need rails though or maybe I should try it with a MWD.

The DLA on the SNI is a big help though, get a 69km range on drones. Some ships have an extra high slot too help you with that.

Don't need exact stats, I can check it the fitting out for myself.

Thanks for the comments so far, it really helps.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2014-06-18 22:14:04 UTC
rails kinda suck for pve. Navy mega should be a reasonably good choice. Hyperion is much better than it was now, and the Kronos is a decent choice, as it is super easy to fit and fly, plus you can get some loot/salvage as you go. Alternatively you can throw blasters on the Kronos, and it is a fantastic brawler.

with the navy mega and hype don't forget the drone bay! Can easily use 5 sentries to add some damage.

This is what I had in eft. you can fit the other ships more or less the same.

[Megathron Navy Issue, navy meg]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Auto Targeting System I

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5
Warden II x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#6 - 2014-06-18 22:38:30 UTC
Xoceac wrote:
Vindicator, made for blasters, not enough CPU for any tank. (minus the shield booster)


Armor tank it, you're not in Incursions. Get around the CPU issue with faction hardeners. Works just fine for L4s.
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-06-18 22:40:38 UTC
I've played around with this same question as well.

You're right, Rokh sucks as a PvE ship as you can either get a great tank but no damage/application, or you can shoot from 20 million miles away but spend an entire clip on a cruiser (I'm exaggerating...)

Eagle has been fun (I'm currently messing around with it now) but pales compared to every other similar or up-sized Missile boat. Cerb is a better mission runner, Nighthawk is a better mission runner, and for sure, Navy-Scorp is a better mission runner.

I have tried putzing around w/ the Proteus for rails and even the Tengu for rails. A HAMgu does a much faster job at killing stuff, but the proteus does a pretty fair job at keeping up. Railgu will do the job, but only gets around 550 dps. Biggest problem w/ Eagle and Railgu is no small drones, so you'd better pick off the scram-rats or you're toast

Cedric
Inir Ishtori
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-06-18 23:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Inir Ishtori
[Kronos, blaster pimp fit null]

Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy 100MN Microwarpdrive or MJD
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Bastion Module I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II

Warden II x2
Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x5

Use falloff implant, rof implant and the one damage implant that fits in the leftover implant slot. Use high skills. Now check the DPS graph in EFT against your favourite Navy scorp fit and see for yourself if you'd like that.
You can also carry 4x Railguns in your cargohold for the rare occasion where you do not know how to use MJD in that particular mission.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-06-18 23:16:59 UTC
Kasutra wrote:
Xoceac wrote:
Vindicator, made for blasters, not enough CPU for any tank. (minus the shield booster)


Armor tank it, you're not in Incursions. Get around the CPU issue with faction hardeners. Works just fine for L4s.

Good catch! Vindi isn't so great shield tanked.

I don't think a hybrid ship will keep up with a missile ship for level 4 missions.
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#10 - 2014-06-19 08:23:55 UTC
IIshira wrote:
I don't think a hybrid ship will keep up with a missile ship for level 4 missions.

In my (admittedly slightly outdated) experience, they can hold their own. The raw DPS numbers more or less match up. The application issues are similarly detrimental.

The best thing the missile ships have going for them IMO is accessibility (there are viable missile ships that don't cost 1B before modules) and plain ease of use.
Xoceac
Incursion Supplies
Gluten Free Cartel
#11 - 2014-06-19 08:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Xoceac
3 options are left from all of the comments

1. Kronos (armor tank)
2. Navy Mega (armor tank)
3. Stay with missiles

A more bigger problem is that I have a max shield booster alt and I also have a drone Navy Domi alt. I just don't want my hybrid implants go to waste. This is difficult. Kronos would work best with a shield tank I believe, since I don't need a super tanky ship and it gets the best amount of DPS, even without faction damage mods and implants. EFT shows the Kronos is the best for DPS.

Choices are difficult too:

1. Change implants for missiles (Don't want to, because I might incursion with a Vindi again)
2. Stay with missiles
3. Get another missile boat
4. Get another hybrid boat (Cruiser/Battlecruiser)

Can't they just design a new ship for this purpose?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#12 - 2014-06-19 09:09:30 UTC
the kronos really is underrated as a mission boat. even though it is generally considered the least effective of the marauders, this in no way means it is bad compared to most any other mission ship and is probably the best hybrid boat for missions. the fit inir posted looks great (id add a gecko or 5 mediums, 5 lights and two sentries for flexibility and fit salvagers) and gets amazing range considering its using blasters.

no implants all V range on null is 20km optimal with end of falloff(eof) being 72km. incidentally im happy as a peach with my vargur eof being 74km. dps is 1067with guns alone. if something gets close then you can unleash void for almost 1500dps on guns alone (11km opt, 30km eof) and over 1600 with a gecko. that should melt even angels that like to get in close.

for serp space probably only the golem comes close to being as effective amongst marauders.

rails will be acceptable agains guristas that like to keep range (50km+ optimal) but perhaps mjd with blasters will be better. just know its a brawling ship at heart and you will have to get mighty comfortable with the mjd/bastion. fit more tank to start with. marauders can still die ;)

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#13 - 2014-06-19 09:25:55 UTC
Xoceac wrote:


1. Change implants for missiles (Don't want to, because I might incursion with a Vindi again)
2. Stay with missiles
3. Get another missile boat
4. Get another hybrid boat (Cruiser/Battlecruiser)

Can't they just design a new ship for this purpose?


Yes, they did, its called the hyperion. It missions perfectly fine and does well over 1000 dps without implants. It is a little clumsy for application, but unlike the dominix it does do more rail dps than it does drone dps and you have a difficult choice about 2 sets of sentry drones and mobile depot vs using a cap booster and charges that you do not have to make with a dominix (always cap boost a mission domi).

Also jump clones allow you to have more than 1 specialist implant set. if you are the kind of person that fits +5s and then never clone jumps because of skill points then I'll will laugh at you mercilessly for your self-fun-prevention.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#14 - 2014-06-19 09:27:35 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
the kronos really is underrated as a mission boat. even though it is generally considered the least effective of the marauders, this in no way means it is bad compared to most any other mission ship and is probably the best hybrid boat for missions. the fit inir posted looks great (id add a gecko or 5 mediums, 5 lights and two sentries for flexibility and fit salvagers) and gets amazing range considering its using blasters.

no implants all V range on null is 20km optimal with end of falloff(eof) being 72km. incidentally im happy as a peach with my vargur eof being 74km. dps is 1067with guns alone. if something gets close then you can unleash void for almost 1500dps on guns alone (11km opt, 30km eof) and over 1600 with a gecko. that should melt even angels that like to get in close.


I've tried the unleashing thing a lot. It works for damsel. For angels, not so much. The last angel mission had me motoring about 200 kms total to pickup all the battleships that were hung up on the scenery (before the bastion patch).
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#15 - 2014-06-19 10:04:28 UTC
yea I think the bastion + mjd significantly boosted all marauder's ability to project damage and increase their mobility.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-06-19 12:12:47 UTC
Xoceac wrote:
To make a long story short, I am unable to find a good Hybrid boat (preferably Rails) that can out-DPS my Navy Scorpion atm. After I was finished doing incursions and found a great corp to have fun with, I played around with blaster fits for both the Ferox and the Moa and found out that they were great boats for gunnery. (I did everything with missiles before incursions)

My scorpion has 851 DPS, without implants, but with faction damage mods + 93 dps with Hobs IIs. The scorpion can also fit a Drone Link Augmentor T2, 3 target painters, booster with shield boost amp, AB and 3 missile rigs without a problem. The problem is, I have two implants for hybrid damage, one for large hybrids and one for all hybrids.

Rokh, can't even match my scorp atm.
Megathron, not really a PVE boat. Tried it in EFT and it failed.
Magathron Navy Issue, still the best one, but less DPS and can't fit a Drone Link Aug.
Vindicator, made for blasters, not enough CPU for any tank. (minus the shield booster)
Dominix, can't fit the T2 rails, doesn't have enough PWG.

Is it really that hard or am I overlooking something? Maybe doing something horribly wrong? I have no idea.

Edit: How about the eagle?


I'd like to see your fitting...
Xoceac
Incursion Supplies
Gluten Free Cartel
#17 - 2014-06-19 12:29:16 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:

I'd like to see your fitting...

For the Scorpion?
Claud Tiberius
#18 - 2014-06-19 13:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Claud Tiberius
A significant amount of DPS from missiles is avoided when the enemy target is too small or moving too fast. Not to mention missiles have travel to hit their target. Keep that in mind when comparing missile and turret damage.

Also not all ships are equal. The extra DPS the Nav Scorpion gives might be to counter the fact that the Scorpion is very slow and very easy to hit (large target).

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-06-19 14:31:42 UTC
Claud Tiberius wrote:
A significant amount of DPS from missiles is avoided when the enemy target is too small or moving too fast. Not to mention missiles have travel to hit their target. Keep that in mind when comparing missile and turret damage.

Also not all ships are equal. The extra DPS the Nav Scorpion gives might be to counter the fact that the Scorpion is very slow and very easy to hit (large target).

Don't forget about NPC defender missiles. They cut a full 25% off a Golem's volley and do so rather frequently.
Keilateau Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#20 - 2014-06-19 14:43:08 UTC
How about a new clone?
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