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Dev blog: Starbase changes for Crius

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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#261 - 2014-06-18 23:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Quote:
Example: I have 100 units of Veldspar in the Compression Array with a total volume of 10m3. After compressing them I will receive 1 unit of Compressed Veldspar with a volume of 0.15m3 (this may displayed as 0.2 in the client due to how rounding works).
Will rounding also translate the same when moving compressed ore to an Orca, Rorqual or Freighter?
Losing .05m3 X 1 is not an issue, lose .05m3 X 500,000 = 25,000m3.
Rorqual Ore Hold = 250,000m3 = 1,666,666 compressed Veldspar @ .15m3 per OR 1,250,000 @ .2m3

Quote:
Removing slots from industry jobs discourage players from stacking more than one Starbase structure of the same type at a Control Tower. To counteract this point, we are going to give specific bonuses when Starbase structures of the same type are stacked together at the same control tower.
So the only way to get maximum bonus is to have completely undefended large Caldari pos's.
(Such a nice income earner for any group that controls Nitrogen production)

Quote:
This bonus is going to be a flat reduction on the whole job cost price, whose amount and total bonus varies depending on the Starbase structure itself.
So Pos's are getting specific bonuses to different types of Assembly Arrays?

Quote:
Newly formed corporations will need to wait 7 days before being able to anchor Starbases. This is to inhibit players from immediately moving Starbase assets to another corporation if under a war declaration.
Seriously naive

Quote:
Improving Mobile Laboratories
Seriously, who in their right mind is going to use mobile laboratories? They are now nothing more than, "Come Shoot Me I Have BPO's Inside".
You have essentially removed Mobile Laboratories from use for all but WH inhabitants.

"Removal of Starbase Assembly Line settings";
Does this mean, anyone with access to the Pos will now have access to any labs that may be inside it?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#262 - 2014-06-18 23:09:02 UTC
Labs are also used for invention and I'm not sure but i think that inventing in pos was faster than in station.
Tsuna Lamperouge
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#263 - 2014-06-18 23:27:05 UTC
CCP are there any plans for getting rid of a POS after its been offline for a certain period of time ? Cause I'm guessing eventually all the moons in hisec will be taken and bashing a tower is too tedious and boring to do in high....
Maxx Run
Maxx Run Blueprint Services
#264 - 2014-06-19 00:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Maxx Run
I really hope that Singularity does not accurately reflect the costs due to be instigated in Crius?!

Please find the results of some of my investigations here.

The results are not entirely comparable as the System Cost Index (SCI) goes up much faster than i predicted, hence the POS results being at 1/3, unlike the station i used. They still show the extremely non linear costs of research. The longer of BPO is being copied for, the cheaper it becomes (Risk > Reward?). It also demonstrates the sharp rise in job costing due to the SCI.

Multiple POS labs did not alter the costings at all, this mechanic must be broken atm.

I will conduct a more thorough survey tomorrow, after some sleep...

Edit - Doh, shouldn't have rushed this (or kept it to myself :P). Please ignore the notes.

  • The POS prices were given with an SCI of approximately 1/3, no tax.

  • The Station Prices were given with a low SCI and 10% tax.

Posting when tired is never a good idea, my apologies Oops

We sell high ME - Sub-Cap Ship, Mod, Rig and Ammo BPC's - All at great prices! The best in the game, we were genetically engineered for this work!!
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#265 - 2014-06-19 01:06:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kusum Fawn
Maxx Run wrote:
I really hope that Singularity does not accurately reflect the costs due to be instigated in Crius?!

Please find the results of some of my investigations here.

The results are not entirely comparable as the System Cost Index (SCI) goes up much faster than i predicted, hence the POS results being at 1/3, unlike the station i used. They still show the extremely non linear costs of research. The longer of BPO is being copied for, the cheaper it becomes (Risk > Reward?). It also demonstrates the sharp rise in job costing due to the SCI.

I will conduct a more thorough survey tomorrow, after some sleep...

Edit - Doh, shouldn't have rushed this (or kept it to myself :P). Please ignore the notes.

  • The POS prices were given with an SCI of approximately 1/3, no tax.

  • The Station Prices were given with a low SCI and 10% tax.

Posting when tired is never a good idea, my apologies Oops


I have found that the longer a bpo is researched for the more expensive it is. Single ME installments seem to take approximately the same amount to time as the total but each step is significantly cheaper then longer jobs.

Edit - you seem to be referring to Copy jobs, which i have not investigated yet.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#266 - 2014-06-19 02:21:00 UTC
What will be the sources for the thukker array bpc and are they on sisi already.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Dwayne Hycks
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#267 - 2014-06-19 05:34:50 UTC
I think that your faction standing should always play apart in which space you can build a pos! Its like saying screw all the people who grinded standings to be able to anchor a POS in the first place. There are certain things you just don't change. Its great that your trying to fix certain things but this is going to cause crazy drama.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#268 - 2014-06-19 09:07:50 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
right mind is going to use mobile laboratories? They are now nothing more than, "Come Shoot Me I Have BPO's Inside".
You have essentially removed Mobile Laboratories from use for all but WH inhabitants.

"Removal of Starbase Assembly Line settings";
Does this mean, anyone with access to the Pos will now have access to any labs that may be inside it?




I can confirm everyone is chomping at the bit for the opportunity to grind hundreds of millions of EHP in highsec so they can find the one ******** industrialist who doesn't know how to use a corp office and is eagerly awaiting the payout for selling those ammo BPOs.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#269 - 2014-06-19 09:14:10 UTC
Dwayne Hycks wrote:
I think that your faction standing should always play apart in which space you can build a pos! Its like saying screw all the people who grinded standings to be able to anchor a POS in the first place. There are certain things you just don't change. Its great that your trying to fix certain things but this is going to cause crazy drama.




The only people who lose are those that boosted corps - a rather peasant profession which didn't even earn a plex a month. Considering their incredibly slight benefit came from the frustration of the entire rest of the playerbase, I think you will continue to be ignored.
Rammix
TheMurk
#270 - 2014-06-19 11:43:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
About the Starbase Defense skill changes.
Already too many people live in highsec for years without ever moving anywhere, too many people live in HS in general. And you make it for this people even easier to defend their pos-s (training pos operators becomes too much easier). I think this is stupid.
And what about those who spent time (read: partial plex) to learn Anchoring-5 to be able to use pos guns? Are the SP going to be reimbursed?

p.s. Well at least have a look at the topic about covcynos in HS (the link is in my signature), to compensate the pos defense skill changes in some way.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#271 - 2014-06-19 11:54:36 UTC
Rammix wrote:
About the Starbase Defense skill changes.
Already too many people live in highsec for years without ever moving anywhere, too many people live in HS in general. And you make it for this people even easier to defend their pos-s (training pos operators becomes too much easier). I think this is stupid.
And what about those who spent time (read: partial plex) to learn Anchoring-5 to be able to use pos guns? Are the SP going to be reimbursed?

Well at least have a look at the topic about covcynos in HS (the link is in my signature), to compensate the pos defense skill changes in some way.


Why should the be reimbursed? Anchoring V is still needed to anchor certain structures and no skill is removed.

Furthermore, this makes it easier for all people to defend their POS, not just High sec. You should be happy that you can convince your corp members now to train Anchoring IV and be good POS gunners, instead of forcing them to waste 20 days on that, which they could use better for training ships and weapon systems.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Rabbit P
Nuwa Foundation
Fraternity.
#272 - 2014-06-19 12:05:36 UTC
some questions

Quote:
Ore, ices and gas clouds may now be mixed together at the same time inside the structures – but modules cannot be moved inside the Reprocessing Arrays.


Reprocessing Arrays can't reprocess modules?
or just can't mix with ore/ice/gas, you can still reprocess modules alone.


Quote:
Moreover, Control Towers will now be anchorable in previously restricted solar systems like 0.8 and above.


previous blog said Starbases to be anchored anywhere in high-security space minus some protected solar systems, is it still the case?

can we have the list of protected solar systems?
Rammix
TheMurk
#273 - 2014-06-19 12:32:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Rammix wrote:
About the Starbase Defense skill changes.
Already too many people live in highsec for years without ever moving anywhere, too many people live in HS in general. And you make it for this people even easier to defend their pos-s (training pos operators becomes too much easier). I think this is stupid.
And what about those who spent time (read: partial plex) to learn Anchoring-5 to be able to use pos guns? Are the SP going to be reimbursed?

Well at least have a look at the topic about covcynos in HS (the link is in my signature), to compensate the pos defense skill changes in some way.


Why should the be reimbursed? Anchoring V is still needed to anchor certain structures and no skill is removed.

Furthermore, this makes it easier for all people to defend their POS, not just High sec. You should be happy that you can convince your corp members now to train Anchoring IV and be good POS gunners, instead of forcing them to waste 20 days on that, which they could use better for training ships and weapon systems.

1. I don't need and don't have any skills that rely on anchoring 5 except Pos defense. So I would strongly prefer to exchange the 5th level of the Anchoring skill back to skillpoints. That was the point.

2. I don't need to convince my corp members to do whatever with their Anchoring skill because I've learned SB Def. M. skill on 4 or 5 of my characters to 3-4th levels so I'm self-sufficient in that.

3. People who need to be able to defend their pos with pvp in mind already have enough characters trained for that. These are not casual pos users.
In HS the skill change will mostly help those casual pos users who don't need the pos defense enough to spend the time, they're not taking pos stuff seriously enough. And now even those will learn the Anchoring skill, while previously they wouldn't even bother.

In HS there are not so many pvp entities which have enough numbers in fleets to destroy an adequatly constructed pos with 5-8 pos gun operators. So, we will have a situation where a relatively small carebear corp of 20 characters (of which 10-15 are alts) will become able to easily have up to 10 pos gun op-s and keep a 'death star' pos almost undestructible for pvp entities which can't gather more than 20 people in fleets. Even some weaker pos configurations will become much easier to defend.
tl;dr: This skill change makes HS pos-s overpowered, because: no capitals, not so many medium-sized or big pvp organizations.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Civire Desire
Minmatar Mining Manufacturing Mayhem and Madness
#274 - 2014-06-19 13:02:15 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
defenseless tower in a 0.9 packed with arrays is the new thing. the result should be obvious


You mean, POS as pinata? yup...

Much the same way the interceptor changes have made my ratting battleships nothing but a pinata for the roaming interceptor gangs.

(Tin-foil hat warning!) The intent behind it to me is equally obvious . To make those of us who want to make enough ISK to buy a PLEX from the market unable to, in an attempt to force us to pay cash for said PLEX, or go back to subscribing.

Ponder this, CCP, the only reason I can afford to play this game at all is by buying PLEX with in-game currency. If I (and all the others in the same boat) are not able to do so, where then is the demand for the PLEXes that the "l33t PvPers" buy for cash so they can convert them to ISK? Let your economist out of that closet you have him hog-tied and gagged in. And listen to him before you totally destroy your game and livelihood.

If I cannot make ISK, I cannot buy PLEX. And then 5 accounts drop offline, never to create demand again for the $20.00 investment made by wallet warriors. I would not be the first to have done so. I have 3 friends who have logged off in Rorqs, Carriers, and even a Nyx in null-sec space, not caring if it later turned hostile, because they are "so totally done with this game." Those 3 real persons represented 17 accounts.

There are only two reasons I keep playing:
1) Masochism; and
2) The friends I have made here who still play.
Both reasons are rapidly losing their appeal. And my apologies to my friends for feeling this way, but all too many of them sympathize with me on that.
Civire Desire
Minmatar Mining Manufacturing Mayhem and Madness
#275 - 2014-06-19 13:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Civire Desire
Rammix wrote:

In HS there are not so many pvp entities which have enough numbers in fleets to destroy an adequatly constructed pos with 5-8 pos gun operators. So, we will have a situation where a relatively small carebear corp of 20 characters (of which 10-15 are alts) will become able to easily have up to 10 pos gun op-s and keep a 'death star' pos almost undestructible for pvp entities which can't gather more than 20 people in fleets. Even some weaker pos configurations will become much easier to defend.
tl;dr: This skill change makes HS pos-s overpowered, because: no capitals, not so many medium-sized or big pvp organizations.


Ummmm... If your POS has 50 assembly arrays anchored and online, just how many guns and hardeners can it field??

Further, where do you get the "not so many pvp entities in hisec?" i know of a couple of rather large-ish outfits that are no doubt chomping at the bit for this to happen. Also, if there is a nice juicy POS to shoot, what is to keep a nullsec corp or alliance from coming in to do just that? We does has spaceships; they cans go places...
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#276 - 2014-06-19 13:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
Rammix wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Rammix wrote:
About the Starbase Defense skill changes.
Already too many people live in highsec for years without ever moving anywhere, too many people live in HS in general. And you make it for this people even easier to defend their pos-s (training pos operators becomes too much easier). I think this is stupid.
And what about those who spent time (read: partial plex) to learn Anchoring-5 to be able to use pos guns? Are the SP going to be reimbursed?

Well at least have a look at the topic about covcynos in HS (the link is in my signature), to compensate the pos defense skill changes in some way.


Why should the be reimbursed? Anchoring V is still needed to anchor certain structures and no skill is removed.

Furthermore, this makes it easier for all people to defend their POS, not just High sec. You should be happy that you can convince your corp members now to train Anchoring IV and be good POS gunners, instead of forcing them to waste 20 days on that, which they could use better for training ships and weapon systems.

1. I don't need and don't have any skills that rely on anchoring 5 except Pos defense. So I would strongly prefer to exchange the 5th level of the Anchoring skill back to skillpoints. That was the point.


This does not change the fact that the skill is good for other things. Your choice not to do those things has absolutely no bearing on the matter. CCP has never (and I should hope does not ever) reimbirsed skill points unless

1. A skill was removed from the game and
2. That removal resulted in a loss of character capability, and
2. No equitable skill was added to replace it.

They're not removing anchoring, and anchoring 5 has uses aside from allowing you to train SDM. No reimbursement is necessary.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Civire Desire
Minmatar Mining Manufacturing Mayhem and Madness
#277 - 2014-06-19 13:26:44 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
defenseless tower in a 0.9 packed with arrays is the new thing. the result should be obvious
Not necessarily... pending any developer clarification of questions raised in post #4 on the first page: you may not need to have all those arrays online. You might be able to have a deathstar fully online, packed with arrays that are mostly offline.


Then what is the point behind making us anchor all those, if we are just going to be able to offline them as soon as the job is installed? Has CCP invented/obtained patent rights on a mechanical index finger replacement for when I wear out my original issue?
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#278 - 2014-06-19 13:27:41 UTC
Civire Desire wrote:
Rammix wrote:

In HS there are not so many pvp entities which have enough numbers in fleets to destroy an adequatly constructed pos with 5-8 pos gun operators. So, we will have a situation where a relatively small carebear corp of 20 characters (of which 10-15 are alts) will become able to easily have up to 10 pos gun op-s and keep a 'death star' pos almost undestructible for pvp entities which can't gather more than 20 people in fleets. Even some weaker pos configurations will become much easier to defend.
tl;dr: This skill change makes HS pos-s overpowered, because: no capitals, not so many medium-sized or big pvp organizations.


Ummmm... If your POS has 50 assembly arrays anchored and online, just how many guns and hardeners can it field??

Further, where do you get the "not so many pvp entities in hisec?" i know of a couple of rather large-ish outfits that are no doubt chomping at the bit for this to happen. Also, if there is a nice juicy POS to shoot, what is to keep a nullsec corp or alliance from coming in to do just that? We does has spaceships; they cans go places...


X for POS destruction, Little Bees.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Civire Desire
Minmatar Mining Manufacturing Mayhem and Madness
#279 - 2014-06-19 13:56:02 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
lol. that reminds me how I used to refine everything i collected from belt rats. everything. it was like, a month before anyone asked what the noobie was doing with all his stuff.


Lol with you there. I built my very first freighter with mins from belt rat loot. I don't remember how many carriers I have built with loot from anomalies. Alas, I hear that is soon to be no moar...
Rammix
TheMurk
#280 - 2014-06-19 15:45:53 UTC
Civire Desire wrote:
Rammix wrote:

In HS there are not so many pvp entities which have enough numbers in fleets to destroy an adequatly constructed pos with 5-8 pos gun operators. So, we will have a situation where a relatively small carebear corp of 20 characters (of which 10-15 are alts) will become able to easily have up to 10 pos gun op-s and keep a 'death star' pos almost undestructible for pvp entities which can't gather more than 20 people in fleets. Even some weaker pos configurations will become much easier to defend.
tl;dr: This skill change makes HS pos-s overpowered, because: no capitals, not so many medium-sized or big pvp organizations.


Ummmm... If your POS has 50 assembly arrays anchored and online, just how many guns and hardeners can it field??

Further, where do you get the "not so many pvp entities in hisec?" i know of a couple of rather large-ish outfits that are no doubt chomping at the bit for this to happen. Also, if there is a nice juicy POS to shoot, what is to keep a nullsec corp or alliance from coming in to do just that? We does has spaceships; they cans go places...

If your pos has '50 assembly arrays' then the SB Def. M. skill makes no diffenence for you. Also, if you have the mentioned 50 arrays at a single pos which make your pos completely harmless, well, you have to suffer, it's your choise.

There are many pvp entities, but most of them form fleets - on regular basis - of under 20-people size, AFAIK.
Large "professional" HS pvp organizations who do the wardecs are few.
I don't believe that a gang would come from nullsec for a "juicy pos" all the way to highsec. They have more interesting things to do, much closer to their homes.

De'Veldrin wrote:

Rammix wrote:

1. I don't need and don't have any skills that rely on anchoring 5 except Pos defense. So I would strongly prefer to exchange the 5th level of the Anchoring skill back to skillpoints. That was the point.


This does not change the fact that the skill is good for other things. Your choice not to do those things has absolutely no bearing on the matter. CCP has never (and I should hope does not ever) reimbirsed skill points unless

1. A skill was removed from the game and
2. That removal resulted in a loss of character capability, and
2. No equitable skill was added to replace it.

They're not removing anchoring, and anchoring 5 has uses aside from allowing you to train SDM. No reimbursement is necessary.


The skill "is good for other things" but for those who absolutely don't need those "other things" they should give the option to deny the 5th level of the skill in exchange for skillpoints.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread