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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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FW suspect timer for everyone who enter a plex!

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flakeys
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-06-18 13:08:01 UTC
To be honest i really don't see the problem in implementing this idea as long as it is for EVERYONE who enters the plex then yeah sure.


We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-06-18 13:14:45 UTC
flakeys wrote:
To be honest i really don't see the problem in implementing this idea as long as it is for EVERYONE who enters the plex then yeah sure.
I see two problems:

1) it would be a questionable exception to lowsec mechanics. why not flag people also at lowsec mission acceleration gates? or in lowsec belts? combat anomalies? these are all PVP 'hotspots' as much as FW complexes

2) the mechanics would get complicated. would the suspect flag last just 15 minutes? if not, what would re-trigger it? being close to the beacon? then what about kiting ships? being on-grid with the beacon? then what happens when you're 500km off (as during long 'chases' in deadspace)?, etc. etc.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Victor Andall
#43 - 2014-06-18 14:32:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Victor Andall
A suspect timer implemented as you said gives you exactly no more information than your DScan does.

It LITERALLY just tells you that someone has entered your plex.

Which you already know if you've watched DScan.

Or your overview.

Or space.

Stupid idea. And pointless.

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#44 - 2014-06-18 15:21:07 UTC
Victor Andall wrote:
A suspect timer implemented as you said gives you exactly no more information than your DScan does.

It LITERALLY just tells you that someone has entered your plex.

Which you already know if you've watched DScan.

Or your overview.

Or space.

Stupid idea. And pointless.

It's not about additional info. They want it, because for some reason, people don't want a security hit. The people who pvp in lowsec a lot, don't give a damn about our security rating anyway. So like I've said before... BRING IT ON!

But in return, make it easier for the aggressive party to be able to catch people. As the FW mechanics are now, the "defending" party has a tremendous advantage, as in being able to always decide whether or not they want to take the fight.

Roaming around FW is besically searching for that 5% who wants to fight you. Where the remaining 95% are farmers, risk-averse carebears, and complete newbies who don't even know where they are.

And to all the people saying Neutrals have no business in a "warzone"...

Some people just want to see the world burn and shoot at stuff for no apparent reason. FW was for some time a decent place to find some GFs. It was in a good spot, if you were flying frigates and it was tons of fun.

But nowadays, FW has turned into a massive farm-fest. You jump from plex to plex, system to system, looking... No... Hoping for that one guy that maybe. Just maybe will actually lock you up and shoot back.

Solo frigate PvP seems hard to come by these days. Seems like it's all about cloaked T3s hunting for ratters nowadays.
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
Negative Feedback
#45 - 2014-06-18 15:22:17 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
CompleteFailure wrote:
Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that no one has suggested that this will help newer players (yet), this thread would be a textbook application of Malcanis' Law. The OP and those supporting the idea aren't considering at all the wider implications this change would have for the game as a whole, but merely how they would benefit from it.


What would be the wider implications? The entire point of FW is to get people who wouldn't otherwise be in low sec, to be in low sec.


I don't disagree with that, what I disagree with is being automatically flagged as a suspect for doing nothing more than warping to a beacon. The idea is just plain silly. The only reason the OP wants this implemented is so that he doesn't have to put himself at a disadvantage, one way or the other. He wants to take choice and consequence out of the equation for no other reason than he doesn't want to adapt to the situation. It's completely self-serving does does absolutely nothing to balance or improve the game (in fact, I'd argue that it would be introducing a pretty significant imbalance).
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
Negative Feedback
#46 - 2014-06-18 15:25:19 UTC
Maekchu wrote:

But in return, make it easier for the aggressive party to be able to catch people. As the FW mechanics are now, the "defending" party has a tremendous advantage, as in being able to always decide whether or not they want to take the fight.


This is where the OP and the others are getting it wrong. Simply warping into a site doesn't make you an aggressor, shooting first does.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-06-18 16:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Rowells wrote:
don't shoot first?


Sec status hits in low sec, and in FW are lame all around. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


Yet some call it a PVP game.
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#48 - 2014-06-18 16:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Eugene Kerner wrote:
This thread is ****, even more is your Idea, I do not care about your sec status.
Killing ships in low sec does not cost a lot of sec status...go kill 2 or 3 rats and you are good.


It's idiotic gameplay that he's complaining about. He wants to blow up the people who are coming after him without having to give them the first shot, and without being penalized with the need to rat after he does it.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

The guy wants to get fights, specifically in faction warfare space, without taking a hit to his sec status. I honestly think CCP should just go a bit further and remove sec status penalties throughout lowsec space and call it a day.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
Negative Feedback
#49 - 2014-06-18 16:55:45 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

The guy wants to get fights, specifically in faction warfare space, without taking a hit to his sec status.


Translation: The guy wants to remove consequences from his actions.
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-06-18 19:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CompleteFailure wrote:
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

The guy wants to get fights, specifically in faction warfare space, without taking a hit to his sec status.


Translation: The guy wants to remove consequences from his actions.


Because joining a militia, losing access to 1/2 of high sec space, becoming a permanent war target to at least 10,000 capsuleers, and losing access to 1/2 of FW low-sec stations aren't qualified as consequences.

Joining a militia in FW is probably one of the most consequential actions that you can do in this game.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Also, I PvP in low-sec all the time. I've lived here for over a year, and I really hate having a sec status under -5. The ability for people to shoot you on stations and gates is very very annoying.
Sowek Kazakov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2014-06-18 19:19:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I think both sides stated their opinions. FW players made their points, trying to explain to other pilots, which obviously didn't understand the situation because of their lack experience of 'plexing' and FW mechanics, or tried to fix a mentality of people who defend their imaginary advantage of 'having chance to attack if someone has messed up overview, and don't notice them entering'.

I figured while ago, that it's harder, and harder to get 1v1 fights. People love to get backup right when fight starts. It's annoying, but understandable. But this topic is not about it. I mentioned it, because someone said that out of all plexes he enters, only 5% is trying to take a fight. Well, there are reasons for that. One of it is the one I stated few sentences ago, about getting backup, and another one is about that security hit we get, for taking a fight.

Then complaining about having only 5% chance of actually getting a fight is kind of lame. Don't you think?

Honestly, I know plenty of those who would fight pirates, if not the Security Status hit. So if it doesn't change anything for the pirates side, why not implement it, and higher the chance of getting a decent fight? :)

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
:)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#52 - 2014-06-18 19:34:11 UTC
Sowek Kazakov wrote:
I think both sides stated their opinions. FW players made their points, trying to explain to other pilots, which obviously didn't understand the situation because of their lack experience of 'plexing' and FW mechanics, or tried to fix a mentality of people who defend their imaginary advantage of 'having chance to attack if someone has messed up overview, and don't notice them entering'.
No they do get it. But they like me, live by the rules associated with low sec. One of them being that if I aggress a neutral target without the correct rights, I lose some sec.

You on the other hand, seem to think you should be handed a free pass. lol no.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#53 - 2014-06-18 19:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
CompleteFailure wrote:
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

The guy wants to get fights, specifically in faction warfare space, without taking a hit to his sec status.


Translation: The guy wants to remove consequences from his actions.


Because joining a militia, losing access to 1/2 of high sec space, becoming a permanent war target to at least 10,000 capsuleers, and losing access to 1/2 of FW low-sec stations aren't qualified as consequences.

Joining a militia in FW is probably one of the most consequential actions that you can do in this game.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Also, I PvP in low-sec all the time. I've lived here for over a year, and I really hate having a sec status under -5. The ability for people to shoot you on stations and gates is very very annoying.
Actually being -10 makes your 1/2 of high sec space and 10,000 number look like weak sauce.

But we understand the risks and accept the consequences.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-06-18 19:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Mag's wrote:
No they do get it. But they like me, live by the rules associated with low sec. One of them being that if I aggress a neutral target without the correct rights, I lose some sec.

You on the other hand, seem to think you should be handed a free pass. lol no.


Because entering a military warzone as a neutral carrying heavy weaponry won't get you shot at. Roll

From a practical standpoint, CCP is telling new players, "Hey look at this really cool place where you can fight people your own skill level. We've even portioned it off so older players won't have a huge advantage on you. And you can make money while you PvP! What's not to like? *fine print* Extended stays here will ensure you can't enter high sec where all of your stuff is, where you cash in your LP, and where you buy everything.

Nobody starts a market alt when they first start playing Eve and you shouldn't be forced into getting a market alt if you want to participate in FW.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
Negative Feedback
#55 - 2014-06-18 21:07:09 UTC
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:

Because joining a militia, losing access to 1/2 of high sec space, becoming a permanent war target to at least 10,000 capsuleers, and losing access to 1/2 of FW low-sec stations aren't qualified as consequences.

Joining a militia in FW is probably one of the most consequential actions that you can do in this game.

Translation: You have no clue what you are talking about.

Also, I PvP in low-sec all the time. I've lived here for over a year, and I really hate having a sec status under -5. The ability for people to shoot you on stations and gates is very very annoying.


They are consequences, you're right. They're consequences for choices that are being made freely on the part of the person joining FW. That's the entire nature of Eve: you're free to do what you want within the game mechanics, you just have to understand that any choice you make will have consequences that come with it, to varying degrees. What the OP wants is to not have consequences for his choices when the consequences affect him negatively.

Choice: OP is flying an AB fit frigate to run plexes and fight in. Consequence: he is vulnerable to MWD kiters.
Choice: Aggressing first in order to web/scram people so that they can't kite. Consequence: he is subject to any and all penalties that come with aggressing in empire space.
Choice: Not adapting and flying something different that will allow him to not have to aggress first. Consequence: he will continue to either be vulnerable to kiters, or be forced to agress first.

Alternative choice: Switch to a reasonably fast MWD frigate to mitigate the vulnerability to MWD kiters. Consequence: OP is no longer forced to aggress first, and therefore doesn't have to take the sec hit.

How hard is it to adapt to a situation and make the rules work in your favor?
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#56 - 2014-06-18 21:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
This thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

I have also removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

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Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.


Thread unlocked.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-06-19 04:54:21 UTC
Sowek Kazakov wrote:
I think both sides stated their opinions. FW players made their points, trying to explain to other pilots, which obviously didn't understand the situation because of their lack experience of 'plexing' and FW mechanics, or tried to fix a mentality of people who defend their imaginary advantage of 'having chance to attack if someone has messed up overview, and don't notice them entering'.

'other pilots' well understand the situation having been on both the fw and pirate side of this kind of engagement many times

and your horrible ad hominem shouldn't convince anyone
Mag's
Azn Empire
#58 - 2014-06-19 05:55:22 UTC
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
Mag's wrote:
No they do get it. But they like me, live by the rules associated with low sec. One of them being that if I aggress a neutral target without the correct rights, I lose some sec.

You on the other hand, seem to think you should be handed a free pass. lol no.


Because entering a military warzone as a neutral carrying heavy weaponry won't get you shot at. Roll
There are often neutrals in military warzones and they may carry weapons. But there are also rules of engagement and consequences if you break them. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dally Lama
Doomheim
#59 - 2014-06-19 06:33:01 UTC
So many idiots in this thread.
A clear cut +1, not sure how anyone can argue against it.

They are working for the militia that controls that space. Why in the crap would they lose security status for defending their own factions space?

New Fitting Window | Distances above 10km | Maximums for buy orders
Dally Lama
Doomheim
#60 - 2014-06-19 06:34:36 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
Mag's wrote:
No they do get it. But they like me, live by the rules associated with low sec. One of them being that if I aggress a neutral target without the correct rights, I lose some sec.

You on the other hand, seem to think you should be handed a free pass. lol no.


Because entering a military warzone as a neutral carrying heavy weaponry won't get you shot at. Roll
There are often neutrals in military warzones and they may carry weapons. But there are also rules of engagement and consequences if you break them. Blink

Yes.

One of those rules: If you are a random capsuleer we do not know and you enter our faction military operations, you may be killed on sight.

New Fitting Window | Distances above 10km | Maximums for buy orders