Warfare & Tactics

Hmm. Didn't think about that did I!

The evidence that I'm seeing appears to agrees with the OP, take my own stats. For the first 5 months of this year I averaged 397 kills with 39 solo, per month not counting pods. A significant amount of my pre patch PvP occurred in defensive plexes and I missed a lot of solo kills because they were contaminated by the single weak rat. This month I'm on schedule to manage 197 kills with 13 solo. There is just not the need to defensive plex to the same degree and when I do get a fight it is almost always with a neutral.

However, I would point out that summer is here and the world cup has started. Traditionally, I would expect activity to tail off under such conditions and of course a lot of people tend to be cautious after a major patch and wait for the new cookie cutter plexing fits and tactics to become established (and copy). So, I'm concerned but not convinced that things are as bad as they first appear.

Couple of comments on things people have said in this thread:

I'm not seeing more solo cruisers out there, not in the Minmatar/Amarr warzone at least.

Timer rollback - once again it rears it's ugly head. Please stop with the anti-farmer bollocks. Timer rollback will be awful for proper plexing fleets. To take a system on a proper push requires a fleet to be spread out among all available plexes. What happens then? A couple of WTs turn up at one gate and everyone abandons their plex. Timer rollback kicks in and it would just be a nightmare to take a system. It would be a millstone around our necks having to virtually tie one player into every plex and then decide whether we can afford to do without 4 or 5 players when a real fight kicks off. Please stop with the constant half thought out anti-farming ideas.

It is a fallacy to think there there are only two types of player in FW, the handsome, leet, honorable PvPer, like everyone posting here and then the scummy, backstabbing, cowardly farmer in a stabbed cloaky fit.

There is every shade in-between and even the most leet PvPer farms at some stage even if only by accident. Reducing farming, reduces income for all, reduces motivation to plex / deplex and reduces PvP, simply! Just live with them.

Shush and come back man xD

Then we'll go there togheter braving gatecamps and such

VP totals are down for everybody, including farmers.

Do you even play in FW?

"it did not have a substantial impact on non-alt, non-farming plexers" <- untrue. In fact I've only run a couple of offensive plexes since kronos hit and I don't plan on running many more unless it is to take a specific system, or as a change of pace from hunting barghest BPCs.

Signed

This makes sense. Sort of a snowball effect.

But wouldn't it seem that more people who want a fight will warp into a plex that is being run? I mean if you now think there is less chance that it is just a farmer there is more chance you won't be wasting your time warping there.

With respect to number 3. I wonder if ccp will nerf defensive plexing. That way people can hope to win systems without the afk plexing alts.

quoted and emphasized for the truth. the added rats is likely the final nail in the coffin for me, if changes aren't made then I'm just going to desub (no drama just straight talk)

Honestly if you're that close to quitting, the added rats are really not the issue. Please see sentence using 'final nail.' Lots of people have quit. Some were tired of logging on to hours of deplexing the home system. For us these changes are a huge boon. I can go on roams. If another corp/ alliance asks for help I can eagerly go without fretting about my home system being farmed. My alliance can make long term plans. I no longer make excuses not to log in to only have to dplex. I hope that some of those people who cared about FW return.

When you clear away the farmers the Amarr militia is pretty bare bones. It will take a while for groups to rebuild to pre-Inferno levels. But what's going to grow back will be so much better then the pale PvP of tricking farmers. I will gladly accept the short term 'we need more peeps!' to get there.

All PvP situations are different, you can't just invent one scenario and say that's how it is or should be.

When I'm running a small plexing or deplexing fleet (usually with everyone in novice capable frigates unless a specific target has been identified), it is like herding cats. Most regular FW guys don't want to sit in a plex on their own, while at the same time would choose to wh*re on a kill, any kill, rather than finish a plex.

If there are a dozen plexes available and a dozen in fleet, trying to get one man into each and keep them there, is a nightmare. Some will do it diligently, others will sneak off at any excuse and the moment someone pipes up on comms with "Scythe Fleet Issue on short scan to the Medium Outpost", everyone bales from their plex to try and wh*re on, even before it has been identified as a valid target.

And if your next sentence begins: "In that scenario..." don't bother, there are a bazillion different combinations as to what could actually appear on short scan. What if it is a couple of Comets and a Griffin? 6 Thrashers? 2 SFIs? What if a known baiting entity comes into local? The choices aren't simply one solo pilot or the perfect sized gang appropriate for your whole fleet.

Then you have the actual skills and habit of your own pilots to consider. Some people won't say anything until the target is in their plex. Others are screaming for help the moment something appears on short scan, even if it can't fit into the plex and all you might hear is:

"Need help! Small Outpost." Then silence.

Timer rollback would make FCing a plexing fleet an even bigger nightmare, no 2 ways about it.