Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Mission plex and DEDs however have something of value that a neutral can take and argue for. Whether it's the loot in the MTU in a big mission site, or the large volume of salvage, or in DED site the end rat can be blitzed and deadspace loot taken, etc. In a FW plex however, there is nothing of value to a non-FW member. Are they going in for the non-bounty rat? Are they desperate for the handful of frig or dessie wrecks to salvage?

It is an Official Empire Militarized zone. There's nothing to be arguably gained to a neutral in a FW Plex. Civilians do not belong in militarized zones.

then shoot first. and lose sec status.

I am going to take the time to try and defend my corp mate here, so take my Bias and my view with a grain of salt.

I wholly support the development of the feature where entrance into a plex gives people an automatic suspect timer, or some other feature that ensures no sec status is damaged by people inside.

Couple things here that people seem to misunderstand.

"Why do you care about losing Sec Status"

Losing sec status is annoying for everyone, infinitely moreso for the casual/new player. They don't have/can't afford a neutral freighter alt to move their ships. They don't want to spend a couple hundred million ISK for tags everytime they hit -5, and they don't want to spend 10 hours or more, roaming through Null, or 50% longer roaming through Low, looking for BS rats to kill.

There is a significant amount of annoyance for Low Security Status, which increases to a decent inconvenience for casual/newer players.

*snip* Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited. ISD Ezwal.

"Don't Aggress First"
The amount of disadvantage you put yourself at by holding aggression, when you don't have to, can be the difference between winning and losing. There are a couple situations that I can think of off the top of my head where you basically consign yourself to death by holding your aggression. You need to aggress everyone, equally, as quickly as possible, otherwise you are halving the amount of people you can fight effectively.

"Its not your Plex"
What?

"About the actual Idea"
Sowek is not the first to raise this Idea. Many people have reiterated this over time. A few EVE personalities and bloggers have expressed their support for the Idea. I can't remember if the FW Rep FunkyBacon has supported, but I think he might have.

FW Plexes are meant to be beacons for PvP. I can make a fairly correct assumption that a large majority of actual Solo PvP in EVE takes place in these plexes.

Lowering the amount of ISK and Time it takes to solo PvP can only be a good thing.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

P.S Welcome to the Forums Sowek. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Just because he does not necessarily "own" the plex himself isn't the point of the argument. Technically speaking, CCP owns everything in EVE, not the players themselves. You pay to use and change their internet pixels.

By saying "Mine" he means that he is currently the only one in the plex, not that he is entitled to hold it. Which is not the point of his post.

Neutrals warp into the plex, because they are undoubtedly looking to kill the OP. It is essentially the same thing as entering into a duel. He is then punished for this mutually agreed PvP by losing sec status for engaging someone, that person also loses sec status for engaging him, if he is neutral. A lot of people think this is screwy.

I really don't give a damn about my sec status, I just raise it with tags when I can no longer go into hubs without the station camps attacking me, however, I can understand and sympathise with the OP.

The issue, that many people don't seem to be grasping, is simple. There is NOTHING in an FW plex for someone who isn't part of one of the militias. THE ONLY REASON FOR A NON FW PILOT TO ENTER THESE PLEXES IS TO FIGHT SOMEONE ALREADY THERE, OR ACT AS BAIT TO GET SOMEONE TO COME IN TO FIGHT.

As such, there should be no issue with neutrals that enter FW plexes being suspect flagged. Why should a loyal militia pilot be taking sec hits to defend his empire's complexes, or to attack his enemy's ones?

If these neutrals are really pirates, they won't care about the suspect flag (which the FW PILOT gets too if he attacks first, which is always the best way in a Plex) and the loyal pilot doesn't get problems replenishing his losses in trade hubs, especially trade hubs in spa e controlled by the empire he is fighting for.

The OP is not asking for immunity from sec status loss for attacking neutrals anywhere else, he isn't asking for instances, or even arenas. I'd even be happy if everyone entering a Plex got suspect, after all, the only reason to be there is to fight, unless you're a stabby farmer. For those that have said "use an alt" why the hell should anyone be forced to use an alt? And before someone counters with "why should someone be forced to be suspect?" They're there planning to attack a loyal militia pilot who is doing his duty. There's no difference between that and ganking miners or freighters.

TL,DR the OP is just asking that he can defend his empire's space without that leading to him eventually having to have an alt to relace all his losses from trade hubs. He isn't trying to avoid PvP, or hide in plexes, and I see no problem with his suggestion.

He won't. A neutral can by definition do nothing to capture that plex. So a militia member can never be defending a plex from a neutral.

Not necessarily true. You have the option of being close to the warp in point to set a trap.

Also, 'real pvp'?

.

You're being out-adapted here. Which is a shame since your attitude appeals to me. If you google sec-status you can find some tricks to build it back up yourself. An alternative would be to find space that better suits your playstyle.

what about a limited engagement timer between everyone that enters a plex that isnt in the same fleet or effect militia (perhaps even of either side)? this way it will not effect anyone alse anywhere else and will only effect the people going into a plex.

the chances of this change then having unintentional effects outside of its intended objective is slim to none as no one alse can take advantage of it outside of the plex except for the players that have entered the plex.

this could in fact increase the willingness of militia to fight rather than just run away. pvp players should be supporting this.

ps. this is not my fw alt, obviously.

What would be the wider implications? The entire point of FW is to get people who wouldn't otherwise be in low sec, to be in low sec.