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Dev blog: Starbase changes for Crius

First post First post
Author
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#221 - 2014-06-18 02:44:48 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
How about this:

Have anchoring a tower start a two week countdown timer. Once that two weeks expires, the tower goes from Anchored to Abandoned, at which point anyone can unanchor and scoop it (or online it themselves with fuel). All the other anchored modules tied to that tower become owned by the corp of the character who onlines it.

Every time you put fuel in the tower, it resets that two week timer.

Two weeks should be enough for anyone with "normal" RL issues to get back in time to refuel it, and for everyone else, too bad.

Make it two weeks after the tower goes offline and I'm okay with this--POSes have space for a month of fuel, so going abandoned after only two weeks while still online is silly.


I was talking about the anchored state. If fuel expires, it goes from Online -> Anchored. That restarts the two week abandonment timer.

After that two week period, if more fuel isn't put in, it transitions from Anchored -> Abandoned, and anyone can scoop it or take possession of it.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#222 - 2014-06-18 06:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
Surprised there's not an outcry from Cap BPO holders. Have fun storing them in the POS's.

Nice job minimizing the criticism CCP - "We'll be looking at something different for CAP BPO's." Yeah - like "hmmm... how do I hide from a **** storm??"
Bear Boss
Drone Renter Federation
#223 - 2014-06-18 07:38:30 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Surprised there's not an outcry from Cap BPO holders. Have fun storing them in the POS's.

Nice job minimizing the criticism CCP - "We'll be looking at something different for CAP BPO's." Yeah - like "hmmm... how do I hide from a **** storm??"


Yeah, well, I submitted my here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352968&find=unread

Obviously the wrong place now when I think about it, but for capital builders TL; DR:

- An insane clickfest coming up
- Logging in every 14 hours to put in new BPC:s
- OR having literally tens of billions worth of BPOs at a lowsec POS *lol*
- Having all your mineral eggs in one POS-shaped basket OR warping a freighter in and out like there’s no tomorrow
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#224 - 2014-06-18 08:50:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Bear Boss wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Surprised there's not an outcry from Cap BPO holders. Have fun storing them in the POS's.

Nice job minimizing the criticism CCP - "We'll be looking at something different for CAP BPO's." Yeah - like "hmmm... how do I hide from a **** storm??"


Yeah, well, I submitted my here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352968&find=unread

Obviously the wrong place now when I think about it, but for capital builders TL; DR:

- An insane clickfest coming up
- Logging in every 14 hours to put in new BPC:s
- OR having literally tens of billions worth of BPOs at a lowsec POS *lol*
- Having all your mineral eggs in one POS-shaped basket OR warping a freighter in and out like there’s no tomorrow


Regarding your linked post the industry changes are far from complete. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Crius or the industry changes were put back to the next update slot. I believe CCP have said copy times are going to be decreased a lot. Also others have asked about runs on BPC's, specifically the cap type ones you use, and I think CCP have said the numbers of runs will be increased. No figures on that yet though.

( Thirteen days to make a five run cap part BPC isn't going to be any good for you is it. On the other hand vastly decreased copy times will collapse the market for those who sell BPC copies. It is very hard to know what to say other than that there will be winners and losers.)

I'm hoping CCP are really busy and cannot answer our questions atm. The idea of multiple arrays to receive tax bonuses really needs to be cancelled asap in favour of a skill-based method.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

probag Bear
Xiong Offices
#225 - 2014-06-18 09:10:14 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Surprised there's not an outcry from Cap BPO holders. Have fun storing them in the POS's.

Nice job minimizing the criticism CCP - "We'll be looking at something different for CAP BPO's." Yeah - like "hmmm... how do I hide from a **** storm??"


Devs have already addressed that issue by increasing the number of max runs on all T1 blueprints to last at least 48h of manufacturing.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#226 - 2014-06-18 09:42:33 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
So... any news yet on the Rorqual since you're pretty much screwing them over with the compression changes? Like... you guys have any ideas where you are wanting to head with it? Or are you just gonna leave it as it is for years until you decide something should be done about it like 90% of the crap you do in game?

And yes... I'm bitter.


No news on the Rorqual so far - but we have not forgotten it.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#227 - 2014-06-18 09:46:21 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
Looks good but are we going to get any updates to Outposts in Crius? Other than refining at each outpost type? I'd really like to see something in the way of upgrade changes. We are going over the upgrades available and it seems pretty pointless to do most of them!


No major changes planned for outposts right now. They are a royal pain in the rear exhaust pipe to touch, code wise.
fluffy jo
Universal Exports
#228 - 2014-06-18 10:09:33 UTC  |  Edited by: fluffy jo
I like these changes coming up for pos production.

The only issue I may have is the potential click fest for onlineing the modules prior to inserting the manufacture job and then offlineing the modules after the manufacture job has been submitted.

as a possible idea to help with this, would it be possible to link the benefit from the pos modules to the time that module has been online. any modules that has not been online for the requested job duration is ignored

for example

you have 2 module at a pos that have been online for 3 days and 4 modules at the same pos that have been online for 7 days.

if you submit a job for 2 days then you get 6 modules benefit.
if you submit a job for 4 days then you get 3 modules benefit.
if you submit a job for 8 days then you get 0 modules benefit.

this will allow specialists to set up a pos and keep it set up.

anyway just an idea.


edit .. there should be 1 modules benefit applied at all times. even if just anchored and onlined.
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2014-06-18 10:40:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaijin Lanis
Ereshgikal wrote:
But you have no problem with sound in space; or that there are magical asteroids just "appearing" in "belts" and "anomalies"; Or that millions of NPC characters die when people go ratting?

I know "EVE is real" is a good slogan, but....really, it isn't realistic.


You're confusing one asking for "semi-consistent internal logic" for demanding "realism." A common mistake. As consistent logic is even less common in reality than the sense anything is real.

Placing the ISK sink directly upon non-station production is somewhat dense. Making one truck legions of homeless, tourists, damsels, slaves, and/or various sized groups of exotic dancers around the universe to man factories (that are suddenly not automated due to space magic) would be a more logical. But considering the rallying cry surrounding the new industry systems is "less busy work, and by less we mean more," it would not go over well to directly tell people they need to kidnap some NPCs to work in their orbital sweatshops, and pay them living wages so they may support themselves in the thriving economy that no doubt exists on the surface of the gas giant moon which their new employment orbits.

Of course, this was probably all covered in that "work teams" blog, that most of us just skimmed because we all knew there was no way in hell CCP was going to make players pay, on top of fuel costs, to use structures they they built, deployed, and maintain. As that would simply be insane.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.

Jon Lucien
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#230 - 2014-06-18 10:41:25 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
Looks good but are we going to get any updates to Outposts in Crius? Other than refining at each outpost type? I'd really like to see something in the way of upgrade changes. We are going over the upgrades available and it seems pretty pointless to do most of them!


No major changes planned for outposts right now. They are a royal pain in the rear exhaust pipe to touch, code wise.


No major changes other than what's been talked about previously with changes to material usage, refining, and slot bonuses? Please clarify this statement.
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#231 - 2014-06-18 11:13:29 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
is it still necessary to create a max-run blueprint copy to get a max run tech 2 blueprint after invention?

I tried running doing a max copy-run of ultraviolet crystals to invent, but it's taking ten times longer than before. This is kind of a big deal.



Nope.

Each invention job will consume a single run from a bpc. (It'll be retained until the job completes, so you'll need multiple copies)

You'll get a 10 run copy for ammo, drones and modules, and a single run for rigs and ships. (ME 2, PE 4 (iirc) )


I'm not sure I understand how to get a max-run tech 2 BPC (for ammo). I tried making a 10 run BPC. I am currently inventing on it, but it's telling me I'll only get a 1 run tech 2 BPC out of it. Am I doing something wrong?
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
#232 - 2014-06-18 11:39:34 UTC
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
is it still necessary to create a max-run blueprint copy to get a max run tech 2 blueprint after invention?

I tried running doing a max copy-run of ultraviolet crystals to invent, but it's taking ten times longer than before. This is kind of a big deal.



Nope.

Each invention job will consume a single run from a bpc. (It'll be retained until the job completes, so you'll need multiple copies)

You'll get a 10 run copy for ammo, drones and modules, and a single run for rigs and ships. (ME 2, PE 4 (iirc) )


I'm not sure I understand how to get a max-run tech 2 BPC (for ammo). I tried making a 10 run BPC. I am currently inventing on it, but it's telling me I'll only get a 1 run tech 2 BPC out of it. Am I doing something wrong?


Any invention process only uses 1 run off a T1 BPC. If you use a 1-run BPC, it is fully consumed. If you use a 2-run BPC, you get back a 1-run BPC, and so on.

The fact that you're only getting 1-run T2 BPCs is an unrelated bug on the currently SiSi build.
GiveMeATry
Storm Chasers.
All My Friends Are Ded
#233 - 2014-06-18 11:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: GiveMeATry
So really, what are my faction standings going to be good for now?

Also we are paying out of pocket to a team to work on items in a POS? If I deploy these POS in wormhole space to the teams spawn from my ass?

Can I leave my ship and enter the POS so I can walk up to the female member of the team and do as I slease with them?

Come on team these are importing things to consider... but no all jerkiness aside what are the faction standings going to do now that I worked my ass off for them.
Meytal
Doomheim
#234 - 2014-06-18 12:01:35 UTC
tom trade valine wrote:
Another drastic change is that blueprints safely stored in a regular station can no longer be used for jobs in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to remotely start Starbase jobs from several solar systems away, but the blueprints will now have to be physically available in the structure for it to properly start.

This is one of the few good ideas with this set of changes. The fact that you can't earn mountains of ISK completely risk-free is a theme that runs central to the game. Why the current situation was even allowed to begin with boggles my mind.


Something else that bugs me a little about the "team" things, besides the mysterious payments to ethereal entities, is the fact that they will supposedly enter and leave systems at will. While fine for Hisec and Lowsec and NPC Null, some of us in W-space and Sov Nullsec actually work to keep outsiders out.

This teams thing would make more sense if we had a chance to shoot them as they moved through space.
GiveMeATry
Storm Chasers.
All My Friends Are Ded
#235 - 2014-06-18 12:22:50 UTC
Meytal wrote:
tom trade valine wrote:
Another drastic change is that blueprints safely stored in a regular station can no longer be used for jobs in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to remotely start Starbase jobs from several solar systems away, but the blueprints will now have to be physically available in the structure for it to properly start.

This is one of the few good ideas with this set of changes. The fact that you can't earn mountains of ISK completely risk-free is a theme that runs central to the game. Why the current situation was even allowed to begin with boggles my mind.


Something else that bugs me a little about the "team" things, besides the mysterious payments to ethereal entities, is the fact that they will supposedly enter and leave systems at will. While fine for Hisec and Lowsec and NPC Null, some of us in W-space and Sov Nullsec actually work to keep outsiders out.

This teams thing would make more sense if we had a chance to shoot them as they moved through space.



I'm pretty sure it's not risk free. There is plenty of people that lots tons of capital BPOs to corp infiltration and stock manipulation.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/09/11/eve-online-player-steals-45-000-worth-of-isk-in-massive-investm/


But CCP doesn't care.. They found that large loss to invested players is good advertising for more new players to join.

Them PISSING ON ME must make them happy cause there is no way I'm getting back that time I though I was investing in building a good faction standing rep.
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2014-06-18 12:35:16 UTC
GiveMeATry wrote:
Meytal wrote:
tom trade valine wrote:
Another drastic change is that blueprints safely stored in a regular station can no longer be used for jobs in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to remotely start Starbase jobs from several solar systems away, but the blueprints will now have to be physically available in the structure for it to properly start.

This is one of the few good ideas with this set of changes. The fact that you can't earn mountains of ISK completely risk-free is a theme that runs central to the game. Why the current situation was even allowed to begin with boggles my mind.


Something else that bugs me a little about the "team" things, besides the mysterious payments to ethereal entities, is the fact that they will supposedly enter and leave systems at will. While fine for Hisec and Lowsec and NPC Null, some of us in W-space and Sov Nullsec actually work to keep outsiders out.

This teams thing would make more sense if we had a chance to shoot them as they moved through space.



I'm pretty sure it's not risk free. There is plenty of people that lots tons of capital BPOs to corp infiltration and stock manipulation.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/09/11/eve-online-player-steals-45-000-worth-of-isk-in-massive-investm/


But CCP doesn't care.. They found that large loss to invested players is good advertising for more new players to join.

Them PISSING ON ME must make them happy cause there is no way I'm getting back that time I though I was investing in building a good faction standing rep.


I have 8+ standing with Amarr faction, but I personally did it to get access to clone facilities and lvl 4 missions for all amarr sub-faction.
Flay Nardieu
#237 - 2014-06-18 12:39:03 UTC
Couple more thoughts, some may be refined previous mentioned ideas.

"Abandoned" High-sec towers - the Low & Null operators are being completely truthful when they say taking out an idle tower with sub-capitals is slow. Even though it might be entertaining on a slow day to cull them, I think a more automated method would make sense in High-sec. In fact there is already a mechanic in place to be modeled after: the decay of anchored containers after 30 days of inactivity. So I would venture a suggestion that once a tower goes idle for over 30 days that the empire it is in impounds the tower, arrays, and all materials contained (similar to items in offices when you don't make your rent payment). A neat twist would be after a prolonged period of impound the empire would sell the standard items on the market at current price and auction off via a contract the individual faction and T2 items in the closest station, off course that is more of wishful idea on my part.

Factory and Labs - Considering POS structures are in space, the most expensive thing a space based structure to maintain is life support systems which logically would mean, particularly in factories, that automation via AI and robotics would be the standard not the exception. In regards to labs it would be very much the same unless dealing with biologicals. So the whole premise of having a human based workforce at an array is illogical and counter intuitive also completely destroying the idea of labor cost at them. Further ruining the whole labor cost premise is the operation of POS arrays in a wormhole, considering the labor force would have to be brought in by capsuleers in the first place.

Removal of Remote from office BPs - Many have been focused on the security aspect of this issue, however with the advent of using prints from containers it is almost a moot point as long as the prints are locked in an audit container with the contents viewable they still can be used. However my argument against it is that it is quite possible for a corporation particularly with this new scaling nonsense at POS'es have multiples in a given system possible one for research and another or 2 for manufacturing due to multiple array bonuses and PG/CPU limits. Moving around prints in that example graphically shows the issues involving decentralization of prints, particularly major hurdles in group workflow and cooperation. The arguments for this change are flimsy at best. least valid is risk versus reward statement, further more in my testing of the new UI it doesn't have any apparent reason to force the change in and unto itself. This particular aspect of S&I worked, made sense in application, and doesn't make sense in removal.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#238 - 2014-06-18 12:40:33 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Bear Boss wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Surprised there's not an outcry from Cap BPO holders. Have fun storing them in the POS's.

Nice job minimizing the criticism CCP - "We'll be looking at something different for CAP BPO's." Yeah - like "hmmm... how do I hide from a **** storm??"


Yeah, well, I submitted my here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352968&find=unread

Obviously the wrong place now when I think about it, but for capital builders TL; DR:

- An insane clickfest coming up
- Logging in every 14 hours to put in new BPC:s
- OR having literally tens of billions worth of BPOs at a lowsec POS *lol*
- Having all your mineral eggs in one POS-shaped basket OR warping a freighter in and out like there’s no tomorrow


Regarding your linked post the industry changes are far from complete. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Crius or the industry changes were put back to the next update slot. I believe CCP have said copy times are going to be decreased a lot. Also others have asked about runs on BPC's, specifically the cap type ones you use, and I think CCP have said the numbers of runs will be increased. No figures on that yet though.

( Thirteen days to make a five run cap part BPC isn't going to be any good for you is it. On the other hand vastly decreased copy times will collapse the market for those who sell BPC copies. It is very hard to know what to say other than that there will be winners and losers.)

I'm hoping CCP are really busy and cannot answer our questions atm. The idea of multiple arrays to receive tax bonuses really needs to be cancelled asap in favour of a skill-based method.


CCP has already acknowledged that the Capital BPC creation / sell cottage industry is being wiped out.( Basically, anything I do in the game is destroyed by CCP). Capital BPC's will be created at incredible rates, and virtually any low sec cap guy, if they want to engage in the futile process of competing against null sec, will be using copies.

Bottom line, this entire industry overhaul spins off in more hilariously bad directions with every blog post (13 arrays of one type to max out bonuses, really????)
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#239 - 2014-06-18 12:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Retar Aveymone
in order to satisfy all of the whiners in the thread, cut the max bonus in half for all of the pos things (leaving the per-array bonus the same)

they will magically be happy even though they've gained nothing
Yinmatook
Skilled Refugees
#240 - 2014-06-18 13:03:28 UTC
Centurax wrote:
Reprocessing at a Starbase could use more information, as it looks at the moment just right click an select reprocess and you get a load of minerals, good start. However in a station you get this cool window that shows you exactly what you are getting before you decide to reprocess it all. Is there a reason we cant have this level of information on the Starbase reprocessing arrays?


This is a critical piece of information that we need to be certain that we (since we all have multiple alts in our corps) don't let the wrong corp member do the refines.