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Ditch NPC Police (not CONCORD)
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Benar Ellecon
Card games on MOTORCYCLES
#41 - 2014-06-10 15:39:10 UTC
I am all for more potential targets to engage while I am flying through Hi-Sec.
+1

Fly with your hair on FIRE!
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#42 - 2014-06-10 16:13:45 UTC
Major Trant wrote:
... The biggest impact would be on group roams. This would allow organised pirate gangs to effectively roam high sec in relative immunity. A gang of suicide gankers for example wouldn't have to wait for their target to be identified before undocking, they could roam in a big pack with logi support. What hi sec citizen would be foolish enough to fire the first shot at a pirate who was part of a 30 Catalyst blob with logi support? Admittedly, only the pirate they shot at would legally be able to fire back. But apart from the intimidation factor, if the hi sec citizen was in a decent ship capable of destroying a catalyst from under the reps of several logi, he would also be a valid suicide gank target for other cheap fit catalysts.

Yes there may be instances of organised mercenary corps taking on such pirate roams, but in my experience, most hi sec grieving corps, tend to prefer softer targets. In the main this will be a license to suicide gank and grief.

-1


First, I do not see any of the true pirates (below -5) being hindered in so far by the Faction Police that it prevents or inconveniences them from doing what they set out to do. Evaluating it, as a positive change for them, as impactful as it superficially sounds is something I do not see. Paranoia is already so high towards them, a few % don't lead to a carebears brain meltdown Pirate

And in regards to the unhindered roams of catalyst fleets or blobs, there is a counter to everything and this one is so easy any young player can do it.
Just imagine said fleet with 30 cats pass by or appear on your combat scanner, what hinders you to grab an alpha sniper and warp in at 100km range, pick one and blab it before any logi can respond. By the time they react or decide to react, you blab a second, maybe a 3rd. They either warp off or head your way. Either way you have time to get away safely. Rinse and repeat this guerilla tactic and big fleet roams will be discouraged quick or their roaming ships will get bigger making it less easy to recover financially from ganks. And if they size up, bring a friend. Pirate

And even if they get to you, they have to commit their gank fleet and its abilities to proceed to take you out in your low value ship.
In either case I see only positive things in this new possibility of interaction. Every fleet interrupted is an industrial saved Twisted.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#43 - 2014-06-11 09:33:36 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I don't think players could ever replace police in hisec without breaking it as a more safe area for beginners and those who want to avoid PvP if possible. I don't think there is any way you could trust the players in Eve to enforce law and order in a fair and proportionate manne,r hence the need for Concord in hisec.

For more PvP more people need to be enticed into losec and null...

And in terms of the OP I'd be happy for players in FW to assist the NPC police but don't think the number would even be high enough to replace the Faction Police.



You cannot escape PVP in eve.
If you want to be able to escape PVP, there are a multitude of other MMOs that will probably cater to that desire.



I didn't say escape I said avoid if possible. There would be no fun without risk of various kinds whether it is ISK, time, ships, whatever...


I meant that you can't escape it in the sense of "it's pervasive".
Same way that you really can't "escape" earthquakes if you're living in San Francisco.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Anthar Thebess
#44 - 2014-06-11 09:40:57 UTC
Good idea, but why create something new if we can add this to FW?

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

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Anomaly One
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-06-18 07:45:12 UTC
Thanks to Major Trant for clearing things up
still the OP's idea adds more content and I do not think this change impacts negatively on solo negative sec players, in fact this would be a breath of fresh air to them as they can now trade in high sec and roam with a bit less of a headache.

Any change that puts power into the hands of players (distributed equally :p ) and less of NPC is a good one.
As for the 30 catalyst roam gank, well you do not need a large ship to take on a catalyst, and if as you say pirates will be roaming high sec, then players can now more easily avoid them (form a neighborhood watch perhaps?) increase cooperation etc.

And instead of the binary system we have now (flashy dead on arrival) negative sec players can now be dreadful (not refering to their actions) and finally

Lots more targets to shoot
more explosions
+1 OP

Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#46 - 2014-06-18 08:19:37 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:

Lots more targets to shoot
more explosions
+1 OP


Lots more targets in High sec, you mean? In safe territory were you can hardly have any unpleasant surprise ... like in Low sec and 00 sec? Roll Amazes me, how weak PVPers have become in this game.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-06-18 08:30:35 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:

Lots more targets to shoot
more explosions
+1 OP


Lots more targets in High sec, you mean? In safe territory were you can hardly have any unpleasant surprise ... like in Low sec and 00 sec? Roll Amazes me, how weak PVPers have become in this game.
Looking at your killboard, either you're the most awesome PVPer ever, or you have always done your very best to avoid unpleasant surprises yourself.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#48 - 2014-06-18 08:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
I hope you are not intimidated; we need more targets in our area, because there's less and less of them. Ugh

I know how to survive and how to choose battles (or let other choose them), where we win and other lose. And we fight in areas of space where targets are supposed to be plentiful. Not in High sec, like so many people seemingly want to go back to and that so many suggestions in this forum want to see more fighting happening. It's pitiful and laughable.

Besides, avoiding the most unpleasant surprises is what PVP is all about. How goes the popular saying again? "If a fight is fought on even terms, both FCs made cruical mistakes." Moving PVP back to High sec, however, is not what "avoiding unpleasant surprises" means.

If people want fights and combat, go to Low sec and 00 sec, not to High sec. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#49 - 2014-06-18 08:52:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Rivr Luzade wrote:
I hope you are not intimidated; we need more targets in our area, because there's less and less of them. Ugh

I know how to survive and how to choose battles (or let other choose them), where we win and other lose. And we fight in areas of space where targets are supposed to be plentiful. Not in High sec, like so many people seemingly want to go back to and that so many suggestions in this forum want to see more fighting happening. It's pitiful and laughable.

Besides, avoiding the most unpleasant surprises is what PVP is all about. How goes the popular saying again? "If a fight is fought on even terms, both FCs made cruical mistakes." Moving PVP back to High sec, however, is not what "avoiding unpleasant surprises" means.

If people want fights and combat, go to Low sec and 00 sec, not to High sec. Roll


Sure, in high sec you might find more duels 1v1 (yeah, t1 frig vs faction bs once in a while, with the BS losing ofc Roll), but that's more true pvp then this low sec hotdrop o'clock or single FW frigs being obliterated by 10 man t2 fleets of neutral super hardcore skilled ... well, you get the point. PvP doesn't mean FLEET or I DON'T FIGHT IF I AIN'T ASSURED VICTORY. How often do you really find single or partner PvP in low sec ? Sometimes I feel there is more ture PvP in station or suspect/orca PvP then in the oh so praised low sec...
Dig Mangeiri
#50 - 2014-06-18 08:53:22 UTC
Aside from High Sec POS anchoring issues, I think the only other inconvenience that comes from low faction standings are the faction based police. Without them, there is no reason to ever try and balance your faction standings.

As far as a low security status goes I don't think it matters that much. I understand the laziness behind the motivation if that is not an oxymoron.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#51 - 2014-06-18 09:00:16 UTC
Dig Mangeiri wrote:
Aside from High Sec POS anchoring issues, I think the only other inconvenience that comes from low faction standings are the faction based police. Without them, there is no reason to ever try and balance your faction standings.

As far as a low security status goes I don't think it matters that much. I understand the laziness behind the motivation if that is not an oxymoron.


Well, faction police as you name it, which is the faction navy, was not mentioned nor is it in the discussion, though anchoring won't be an issue anymore, faction navy is still valid for faction warfare and low faction standings still will limit your agent access. There is enough reason to balance factions out if you need one.

And I don't see any laziness in the subject discussed, but thx for your post Roll
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-06-18 09:03:38 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
I hope you are not intimidated; we need more targets in our area, because there's less and less of them. Ugh

I know how to survive and how to choose battles (or let other choose them), where we win and other lose. And we fight in areas of space where targets are supposed to be plentiful. Not in High sec, like so many people seemingly want to go back to and that so many suggestions in this forum want to see more fighting happening. It's pitiful and laughable.

Besides, avoiding the most unpleasant surprises is what PVP is all about. How goes the popular saying again? "If a fight is fought on even terms, both FCs made cruical mistakes." Moving PVP back to High sec, however, is not what "avoiding unpleasant surprises" means.

If people want fights and combat, go to Low sec and 00 sec, not to High sec. Roll
Your playstyle is legitimate. Carefully planning and choosing your fights is ok. Nobody is forcing you to take risks if you don't like to.

Just pointing out that the 'quality' of PVP depends much more on the players than the game mechanics.


IMO, more PVP is always good, no matter where it happens. Leave it to the players to make it exciting.


Undocking a solo HAC in a 'new highsec' where everyone (except NPCs) can shoot you (if you're neg sec status) could be more fun than flying an AF in a 15-man nullsec gang hunting ratters.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#53 - 2014-06-18 09:03:45 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:

Sure, in high sec you might find more duels 1v1 (yeah, t1 frig vs faction bs once in a while, with the BS losing ofc Roll), but that's more true pvp then this low sec hotdrop o'clock or single FW frigs being obliterated by 10 man t2 fleets of neutral super hardcore skilled ... well, you get the point. PvP doesn't mean FLEET or I DON'T FIGHT IF I AIN'T ASSURED VICTORY. How often do you really find single or partner PvP in low sec ? Sometimes I feel there is more ture PvP in station or suspect/orca PvP then in the oh so praised low sec...


Ah, and because of this rotten- to-the-core state of the game, more PVP needs to be moved into safe territory to make the game and this oh so important part of the game even more rotten? This is ridiculous.

There are also a lot of people who take on fight even when they are outnumbered (One Man Army videos, Clahim and Predator666 come to my mind) and can still achieve grate scores and kills, despite their death in many cases in the end. What really makes this game go down the drain is this rotten attitude of the players towards the risk. No one wants to take risk any more (me included in some cases when death without any meaningful gains is certain), and everyone is only after easy kills, like High sec freighter ganking or mining barge ganking.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#54 - 2014-06-18 09:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:

IMO, more PVP is always good, no matter where it happens. Leave it to the players to make it exciting.

Undocking a solo HAC in a 'new highsec' where everyone (except NPCs) can shoot you (if you're neg sec status) could be more fun than flying an AF in a 15-man nullsec gang hunting ratters.


Then make it exciting where exciting PVP is supposed to take place! (Hint, this place is not High sec.) Put your brain cells into drafting an idea that makes PVP in Low sec and 00 sec more interesting. Going back to High sec for PVP is the ultimate acknowledgment of failure and weakness.

And what kind of change is that? If you are negative sec status, you can already be engaged by all players. (Almost) No one does it ... except for the NPC police force.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#55 - 2014-06-18 09:19:13 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Then make it exciting where exciting PVP is supposed to take place! (Hint, this place is not High sec.) Put your brain cells into drafting an idea that makes PVP in Low sec and 00 sec more interesting. Going back to High sec for PVP is the ultimate acknowledgment of failure and weakness.


I am actually working on that, but it is a bit more complex to formulate and present it properly... give me some time ,)

It will address many other issues too, which constantly come up and are interconnected. But I fear I won't have much time to put more brain power into it in the next weeks. The concept is all there though.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#56 - 2014-06-18 09:23:06 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Then make it exciting where exciting PVP is supposed to take place! (Hint, this place is not High sec.) Put your brain cells into drafting an idea that makes PVP in Low sec and 00 sec more interesting. Going back to High sec for PVP is the ultimate acknowledgment of failure and weakness.


I am actually working on that, but it is a bit more complex to formulate and present it properly... give me some time ,)

It will address many other issues too, which constantly come up and are interconnected. But I fear I won't have much time to put more brain power into it in the next weeks. The concept is all there though.


Great! At least someone seems to try. Big smile

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-06-18 09:56:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dav Varan
You can already get your sec status back up for access to high sec by grinding or by them new tags iirc.

If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
low sec statuses are a punishment for naughties and should remain so.

grind back up to <-5 is the easy part from what I rememeber.

Sounds like some suicide ganker is getting fed up of the grind up ?
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-06-18 10:25:02 UTC
Dav Varan wrote:
You can already get your sec status back up for access to high sec by grinding or by them new tags iirc.

If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
low sec statuses are a punishment for naughties and should remain so.

grind back up to <-5 is the easy part from what I rememeber.

Sounds like some suicide ganker is getting fed up of the grind up ?
Dav, I see that you're 0.3 sec status and that you kill a whole bunch of squids* in Jita. Good job! Pirate

You have learned to avoid the Caldari Navy, which makes perfect sense to me since you are an enemy of the Caldari.


Now, some of your own corp mates are negative security status, I assume because they engage neutrals in lowsec, not because they are highsec suicide-gankers. Your CEO, for example, is -3.5.

If they wanted to join you from time to time in messing with the squids* in Jita, they'd have to grind up or buy up their sec status.

This is not difficult, but a hassle nonetheless. It's not really 'punishment' either, it's just a hassle.


My question is: who do you think is benefiting from this hassle? Wouldn't it be more fun for them to just fly to Jita as they please? Wouldn't it be more fun for the Jita-dwellers to have more targets to shoot at, if they chose to not grind up their sec status?

Yeah, Jita is probably not the best place to go if you're a legal target for everyone, but you get the idea. Say Sobaseki, for example (on the Ichoriya-Jita route).



*For non-FW players: squids = members of Caldari and Amarr militia.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#59 - 2014-06-18 10:31:39 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:

My question is: who do you think is benefiting from this hassle? Wouldn't it be more fun for them to just fly to Jita as they please? Wouldn't it be more fun for the Jita-dwellers to have more targets to shoot at, if they chose to not grind up their sec status?

Yeah, Jita is probably not the best place to go if you're a legal target for everyone, but you get the idea. Say Sobaseki, for example (on the Ichoriya-Jita route).


No, it would not be. But I start to see where you come from; you are apparently also one of those who consider ganking and jita camping a high art of PVP.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-06-18 10:34:53 UTC
+1

I start to see the possibilities this tweak offers ... it's mainly bad for low-sec people

I'm my own NPC alt.