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[Crius] Reprocessing feedback

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#101 - 2014-06-16 16:20:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Velicitia wrote:

But that's against the spirit of EVE (both cases, actually).


Which spirit are you talking about? Roll If you want a realistic picture on the spirit of EVE, I suggest you to read this topic.

But in any case, and to not let it drift too far off into other topics; I don't see a problem with using game mechanics and features. They are there, they can be used and in fact are used if you don't want to expose yourself to the hypocritical loveliness (replace with a more colorful term of your choice) of the other players. If you do that, you have very limited choice in reaping the benefits of a lot of the game's mechanics. If you, however, want to expose yourself to the loveliness of the game, you have to do it full-scale to get a chance for the rewards. Not just cherrypicking and expecting to get the full land of milk and honey treatment.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
KiltedWarrior
BlackWatch Industrial Group
Memento Moriendo
#102 - 2014-06-16 19:45:30 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Rowells wrote:
were all stations supposed to recieve reproccessing arrays or was I mistaken?


No, we're not changing the availability of the different Industry service - we are just removing manufacturing / science slots.



Quoted from the devblog:

"Little outpost on the prairie

Player-built outposts are currently very biased regarding reprocessing. Minmatar outposts have a default 35% output and all others have none. Currently there is not much of a choice on that regard.

In the same vein, there is not so much of an incentive to upgrade an outpost for better reprocessing yields, since perfect reprocessing rates are so easily achieved.

After the summer expansion, all outposts will now have a default 50% reprocessing rate (on all items, including ore, ices, ships, ammunition etc…). However:

Amarr, Caldari and Gallente outposts can be upgraded to further increase ore and ice reprocessing by 2%, 4% and 7% (for a total of 52%, 54% and 57%)
Minmatar outposts can be upgraded to add further 3%, 7% and 10% on ore and ice reprocessing rates (for a total of 53%, 57% and 60%)
In practice, that means that someone with perfect skills, implant and standings refining at a fully upgraded Minmatar outpost will receive 14.4% more reprocessed minerals than currently."

So which is it? Are the non-Minmatar outposts getting the ability to refine or not?
Alain Kinsella
#103 - 2014-06-16 20:55:05 UTC
Is there a way to tell what your final reprocess % is, when using the Refining Arrays in a POS? It only shows 52%, but I believe that is the base value (skills should raise this).

The new Refine interface is not instant, and will show you the refine % (with modifiers) at the station. The POS module is instant, so I don't have feedback on what the final refine/waste is.

PS - stop making me glance at Null more. Twisted Every time I compare just Masalla (0.8) with the Null seed station, I'm getting a 20% refine boost just by working from Null NPC stations. Mind you, if the POS module starts at 52% and is modified by skills, you're encouraged to refine there instead of High as well (barring good standings et al).

This has also made me review my stock of unused modules at home. I've been melting all kinds of stuff down like crazy, since I have good enough standing that I have no tax...

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).
Setta Codie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2014-06-17 08:40:32 UTC
Defiantly need the refining quote at the pos refine arrays just like at outposts. I get 74% at an outpost. I can see that because the quote tells me. I get less minerals at the intensive refining array at the pos but I have no idea of the %
Velicitia
XS Tech
#105 - 2014-06-17 15:01:29 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Velicitia wrote:

But that's against the spirit of EVE (both cases, actually).


Which spirit are you talking about? Roll If you want a realistic picture on the spirit of EVE, I suggest you to read this topic.

But in any case, and to not let it drift too far off into other topics; I don't see a problem with using game mechanics and features. They are there, they can be used and in fact are used if you don't want to expose yourself to the hypocritical loveliness (replace with a more colorful term of your choice) of the other players. If you do that, you have very limited choice in reaping the benefits of a lot of the game's mechanics. If you, however, want to expose yourself to the loveliness of the game, you have to do it full-scale to get a chance for the rewards. Not just cherrypicking and expecting to get the full land of milk and honey treatment.


Explain to me how "multiple outposts in a single system" is the spirit of EVE?

I was saying this

Quote:

Besides, miners "hiding" in NPC are not the biggest problem in my opinion. Gank pilots hiding in NPC corps are.


is outside the spirit of eve in the sense that your actions should have consequences ... and that "solo play" is generally not as good as "group play".


Back on topic of reprocessing ...

I still haven't seen an argument against my original statement of "well, I'm kind of on the fence about [hisec] NPC stations having 'perfect' refine".

Yes, I realize that it's hardly "perfect", if we're considering all tracts of space -- but I'm trying to keep this limited to hisec.


Max skills, implant, no taxes

POS (by extension "player corp") --> "100%"
NPC (by extension "NPC Corp") --> "96%"

Risks:
POS -> tower loss due to war, gankers,
NPC -> gankers

Investments
POS -> tower, refinery, (possibly compression array, defenses), defense fleet, fuel, stront, barges, orca.
NPC -> barges and orca.


The 4% boost in refining is about enough that one Mack load of Veld will cover a small tower's fuel for an hour.

There's not enough of a carrot here to draw hisec miners out of NPC corps (or, alternatively, there's not enough of a stick to force them out).

Would it really be that bad to have (for example) a 10% loss in NPC stations compared to POS?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#106 - 2014-06-17 15:17:08 UTC
Honestly, there is nothing preventing a NPC corp player from having an alt corp sitting idle whilst they build up ore to refine, alt corp drops a pos + refinery, refines, yanks the pos and goes back to being idle. Very little risk involved.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#107 - 2014-06-17 16:10:50 UTC
Laendra wrote:
Honestly, there is nothing preventing a NPC corp player from having an alt corp sitting idle whilst they build up ore to refine, alt corp drops a pos + refinery, refines, yanks the pos and goes back to being idle. Very little risk involved.


true ... but at least there, you can take control of all the moons in a system to force them out.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
bcpror9981
EVE Protection Agency
Bloodline.
#108 - 2014-06-18 03:22:53 UTC
KiltedWarrior wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Rowells wrote:
were all stations supposed to recieve reproccessing arrays or was I mistaken?


No, we're not changing the availability of the different Industry service - we are just removing manufacturing / science slots.



Quoted from the devblog:

"Little outpost on the prairie

Player-built outposts are currently very biased regarding reprocessing. Minmatar outposts have a default 35% output and all others have none. Currently there is not much of a choice on that regard.

In the same vein, there is not so much of an incentive to upgrade an outpost for better reprocessing yields, since perfect reprocessing rates are so easily achieved.

After the summer expansion, all outposts will now have a default 50% reprocessing rate (on all items, including ore, ices, ships, ammunition etc…). However:

Amarr, Caldari and Gallente outposts can be upgraded to further increase ore and ice reprocessing by 2%, 4% and 7% (for a total of 52%, 54% and 57%)
Minmatar outposts can be upgraded to add further 3%, 7% and 10% on ore and ice reprocessing rates (for a total of 53%, 57% and 60%)
In practice, that means that someone with perfect skills, implant and standings refining at a fully upgraded Minmatar outpost will receive 14.4% more reprocessed minerals than currently."

So which is it? Are the non-Minmatar outposts getting the ability to refine or not?



Thats a shot to the ballz if they dont do that
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#109 - 2014-06-18 03:37:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
No copy paste functionaliy for entries in the reprocessing offer window Sad

Also:
If I remember correctly, a block of compressed ore is made of a batch of the raw ore (100 units).
Now let's take Arkonor as an example (the batch got added 1275 Units of Mexallon as announced in the Fortune favors the bold Devblog)
Here's the minerals of a batch, the quantites are from left to right
6905 x Tritanium,
1275 x Mexallon
115 x Zydrine
230 x Megacyte

On Sisi, however, one unit of compressed Arkonor contains
7672 Tritanium
1420 Mexallon
128 Zydrine
256 Megacyte

Roughly 111 % of the minerals of a batch.

And the blueprints for compressed [whatever] are still present in the market

Same applies to ice, like Thick blue Ice
Compressed stuff also contains roughly 111 % of the raw ice.


Thanks for pointing this out, this will be taken care of.

wasn't there some mention of this, because the new reprocessing perfect skills are only ~74% or what ever, the yield of everything was increased so we would get the same minerals as we do now, from the same size batch. Actually perfect skills will a maxed outpost was a little better yield than current. "14.4% more reprocessed minerals than currently."
Darkblad
Doomheim
#110 - 2014-06-18 06:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
No copy paste functionaliy for entries in the reprocessing offer window Sad

Also:
If I remember correctly, a block of compressed ore is made of a batch of the raw ore (100 units).
Now let's take Arkonor as an example (the batch got added 1275 Units of Mexallon as announced in the Fortune favors the bold Devblog)
Here's the minerals of a batch, the quantites are from left to right
6905 x Tritanium,
1275 x Mexallon
115 x Zydrine
230 x Megacyte

On Sisi, however, one unit of compressed Arkonor contains
7672 Tritanium
1420 Mexallon
128 Zydrine
256 Megacyte

Roughly 111 % of the minerals of a batch.

And the blueprints for compressed [whatever] are still present in the market

Same applies to ice, like Thick blue Ice
Compressed stuff also contains roughly 111 % of the raw ice.


Thanks for pointing this out, this will be taken care of.

wasn't there some mention of this, because the new reprocessing perfect skills are only ~74% or what ever, the yield of everything was increased so we would get the same minerals as we do now, from the same size batch. Actually perfect skills will a maxed outpost was a little better yield than current. "14.4% more reprocessed minerals than currently."
The values I stated in my post were both the quantities before reprocessing. These are now shown in the info window. It got corrected, but at the time of writing this post, a block of compressed ore contained roughly 11 % more (before reprocessing) than a batch of raw ore (before reprocessing as well).
Interestingly, 11 % more is around the value that base material requirements of blueprints got increased. But anyway, Sisi now states similar mineral quantities for raw and compressed ore.

NPE – ISD – RIP
Vitank
State War Academy
Caldari State
#111 - 2014-06-20 11:44:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vitank
Quote:


Quoted from the devblog:
....
After the summer expansion, all outposts will now have a default 50% reprocessing rate (on all items, Attentionincluding ore, icesAttention, ships, ammunition etc…).
.....
Amarr, Caldari and Gallente outposts can be upgraded to further increase ore and ice reprocessing by 2%, 4% and 7% (for a total of 52%, 54% and 57%)
Minmatar outposts can be upgraded to add further 3%, 7% and 10% on ore and ice reprocessing rates (for a total of 53%, 57% and 60%)
......


Oh mighty CCP Ytterbium, master of Reprocessing all things! Shocked

Please, confirm the plan is still to give Amarr, Caldari and Gallente Player Built Outpost the ability to reprocess Ore/Ice as stated in the Dev Blog Question



Cheers
Callic Veratar
#112 - 2014-06-20 15:57:35 UTC
Metal Scraps currently reprocess at 100%. After Crius, they should drop down to 54%. I'm not sure it's important enough, but has there been any consideration to increasing the trit contents by 90-100% to make up the difference? Making them worth less may be intended, though at some point they might as well just be removed from the game.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#113 - 2014-06-23 20:48:07 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Mining is the time-sink ... and repro is the "instant" (well except in POS, which takes 10 sec).
POS Reprocessing currently happens instantly as well - at least the highsec usable "Reprocessing Array". The attribute isn't active (neither is the yield multiplier).



no, currently, as in right now on TQ, it takes 3 hours to run a full refining job on the array. annoying as hell. which is why i'm very happy for the 10 sec delay

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#114 - 2014-06-23 21:04:08 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Mining is the time-sink ... and repro is the "instant" (well except in POS, which takes 10 sec).
POS Reprocessing currently happens instantly as well - at least the highsec usable "Reprocessing Array". The attribute isn't active (neither is the yield multiplier).



no, currently, as in right now on TQ, it takes 3 hours to run a full refining job on the array. annoying as hell. which is why i'm very happy for the 10 sec delay
With "currently" I referred to the current state on Singularity at the time I posted that. Also notice the "highsec usable Reprocessing Array" which hints that.

The wording was so as the quoted post stated the 10 seconds duration that were visible in the attributes of the array.

NPE – ISD – RIP
Jed Clampett
Doomheim
#115 - 2014-06-25 09:21:20 UTC
RainReaper wrote:
hey uh on the test server i tried to reprocess a civilian miner. it worked and well it gave me 7 mechanical parts, 2 laser focusing crystals, 4 photon microprocessors and 7 electronic parts. as well as some mexalon nocxium pyerite and tritanium. i belive this is a bug?



Is reprocessing of station containers/vaults/warehouses going to come back? Right now its disabled on Tranquility.

Which is sort of silly considering there are BPOs, that they require a freighter to move, and are just a modest pile of Trit.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#116 - 2014-06-25 10:12:10 UTC
KiltedWarrior wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Rowells wrote:
were all stations supposed to recieve reproccessing arrays or was I mistaken?


No, we're not changing the availability of the different Industry service - we are just removing manufacturing / science slots.



Quoted from the devblog:

"Little outpost on the prairie

Player-built outposts are currently very biased regarding reprocessing. Minmatar outposts have a default 35% output and all others have none. Currently there is not much of a choice on that regard.

In the same vein, there is not so much of an incentive to upgrade an outpost for better reprocessing yields, since perfect reprocessing rates are so easily achieved.

After the summer expansion, all outposts will now have a default 50% reprocessing rate (on all items, including ore, ices, ships, ammunition etc…). However:

Amarr, Caldari and Gallente outposts can be upgraded to further increase ore and ice reprocessing by 2%, 4% and 7% (for a total of 52%, 54% and 57%)
Minmatar outposts can be upgraded to add further 3%, 7% and 10% on ore and ice reprocessing rates (for a total of 53%, 57% and 60%)
In practice, that means that someone with perfect skills, implant and standings refining at a fully upgraded Minmatar outpost will receive 14.4% more reprocessed minerals than currently."

So which is it? Are the non-Minmatar outposts getting the ability to refine or not?



Apples and oranges, but I guess I didn't explain myself clearly.


  • NPC stations and conquerable stations are not getting any service change.
  • Player outposts will get the reprocessing facilities as quote above.
  • Slots are going away on everything. NPC stations, conquerable stations, outposts, starbases.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#117 - 2014-06-25 10:18:53 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Setta Codie wrote:
Defiantly need the refining quote at the pos refine arrays just like at outposts. I get 74% at an outpost. I can see that because the quote tells me. I get less minerals at the intensive refining array at the pos but I have no idea of the %


Yes, we wanted to introduce the new UI for Starbase Reprocessing Arrays as well, but all software developers that volunteered to look into the POS code started behaving strangely. Two of them got seizures while drooling everywhere and one had to be locked down for yelling "oh my god, it's full of stars" non-stop.

Not pretty, so we'll have to make due without it so far.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2014-06-25 12:00:16 UTC
have you considered giving us a mobile deployable instead ?

or would that take too long/ be too messy/complicated ?
Darkblad
Doomheim
#119 - 2014-06-25 15:52:48 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Edit, while I'm at it: Two compressed variants contain raw ore quantities that are no multiple of 100 pre Crius - Crokite (1250 units) and Pyroxeres (49.950 units). I didn't get to spare some on Sisi before deployment and can't test. However, adjusting the quantities of compressed variants results in values a basic ore batch contains. This would mean the loss of half a batch for each block when Crius goes live - if there's no other adjustment, which I can't check myself.
Still wondering about this. I've created a sheet to show the impact of the "half future batch" within currently existing blocks.
The new mirror didn't convert TQ blocks. One block still is one block on Sisi. What is planned to be done to them when crius gets deployed? How are those two special ores to be converted?

NPE – ISD – RIP
Jon Lucien
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#120 - 2014-06-25 15:59:40 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Apples and oranges, but I guess I didn't explain myself clearly.


  • NPC stations and conquerable stations are not getting any service change.
  • Player outposts will get the reprocessing facilities as quote above.
  • Slots are going away on everything. NPC stations, conquerable stations, outposts, starbases.


So then what is the non-upgraded difference between the minmatar outpost and the other racial variants?