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The thing about the ESS in anomalies
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Jess Rawne
Band of Bookstarter
#1 - 2014-06-17 09:04:36 UTC
I would like to propose that NPCs shoot ESS structures set in space (only if on grid of course).

My point would be that the intent of the ESS is to create pvp (agressor trying to steal your money, you trying to defend it) and the trick to put the ESS into an anomalie and escalating the site so you have a lot of dps, webs and tackle on field provided by the local pirates you slaughter the whole time defeats the whole purpose of it.

Why would they tolerate an surveillance unit of the empire anyway. Tho i would not suggest to let NPCs spawn on the ESS.

Would like to hear your input.

Furthermore if that idea boats well we could talk about NPCs shooting bubbles on gates/ in Anomalies too.
Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-06-17 09:22:34 UTC
Definitely agreed, the ESS should not be anchorable on grid with NPCs. How this check would be done I don't know, but it doesn't make sense as it is.
Systemlord Rah
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-06-17 09:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Systemlord Rah
it makes sense nobody kills the npcs as long as this unit is in place you could say its a life saver for rats

protect our unit and you life

easy deal and a legit move fly with a proper fleet and you could as well clear the site
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-06-17 10:58:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ncc 1709
ess in anomalies is the only counter to ceptor fleets that hunt them on a daily basis. if they want to steal it, bring something bigger than a chicken ass nullified captor that can have the dammed thing looted before your able to dock, change ship and get back out due to its bubble immunity

or if your going to remove it from the ess, change the steal timer to 10 mins
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-06-17 14:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Faren Shalni
Ncc 1709 wrote:
ess in anomalies is the only counter to ceptor fleets that hunt them on a daily basis. if they want to steal it, bring something bigger than a chicken ass nullified captor that can have the dammed thing looted before your able to dock, change ship and get back out due to its bubble immunity

or if your going to remove it from the ess, change the steal timer to 10 mins


wait you actually reship to defend the ess? Seriously though the reason you see inty fleets is because they are the only ships fast enough to roam a area of space to catch things before the ratters all safe up because of intel channels and local (and local scanning bots auto posting into intel channels) and ceptor fleets are roaming for kills not ess's

The amount of bubbles on gates in renter space makes flying non nullified ships unreliable at catching anything but the stupidest of ratters. Its now even harder to catch a carrier in nullsec even in intys because of previously mentioned intel and local

regarding the ESS in sites, its easy to work around but only if you can be left alone for 10 mins in your inty (I have done it and bagged 500m from a BoT ess cuz they were idiots and left it alone). still being able to anchor this in a site needs to go because it takes away the risk for their income which was what it was originally designed to introduce. Yes I can get a fleet and roam and get the ess's but I am not going to sacrifice speed and ability to skirmish to obtain what is good isk for 1-2 guys but is not viable when split into 4 or more, especially when I am roaming to catch ratter's that dock faster than a flashy freighter on the jita 4-4 undock

You should defend your ESS not NPC's. You need to risk your isk to get better rewards not let the npc's defend it for you so you don't have to risk anything

Edit: Why change the steal timer to 10 mins? You don't defend it anyway that's too risky and requires pvp or a batphone (I tackled a carrier and had to wait 40 mins for the renters to batphone a corp 3 regions away to cyno hop over to the tackled carrier to chase me off)

You cant expect to have your stuff stolen and then use the excuse "we wasn't ready, should of been a 10 minute timer so we could have a chance to defend it"

So Much Space
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#6 - 2014-06-17 14:48:37 UTC
I think it's clever and emergent gameplay.

It's one of the few things that justifies the existence of the ESS in the first place, what's more.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Igor Nappi
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-06-17 15:43:24 UTC
It only makes sense that this part of nullsec PVE is left to be run by AI, too.

Furthermore, I think that links must be removed from the game.
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-06-17 18:34:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I think it's clever and emergent gameplay.

It's one of the few things that justifies the existence of the ESS in the first place, what's more.

Then why did they take away my WH doorbell? It was great anchoring one of these on a WH and know exactly who came in while bubbleing them at the same time.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-06-17 18:44:58 UTC
Daoden wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I think it's clever and emergent gameplay.

It's one of the few things that justifies the existence of the ESS in the first place, what's more.

Then why did they take away my WH doorbell? It was great anchoring one of these on a WH and know exactly who came in while bubbleing them at the same time.


Because it was creating something against the very idea of WH...
Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2014-06-17 22:31:47 UTC
I agree with this idea.

It makes sense from a lore point of view too.

Fang
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#11 - 2014-06-17 23:53:59 UTC
No. Then the people that put it in anoms might actually defend it. 2 guardians and an assault frigate made us 700 mill in 5 minutes the other day cause the idiots thought their ess would be safe in an anomaly.
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#12 - 2014-06-18 00:01:36 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
ess in anomalies is the only counter to ceptor fleets that hunt them on a daily basis. if they want to steal it, bring something bigger than a chicken ass nullified captor that can have the dammed thing looted before your able to dock, change ship and get back out due to its bubble immunity

or if your going to remove it from the ess, change the steal timer to 10 mins


wait you actually reship to defend the ess? Seriously though the reason you see inty fleets is because they are the only ships fast enough to roam a area of space to catch things before the ratters all safe up because of intel channels and local (and local scanning bots auto posting into intel channels) and ceptor fleets are roaming for kills not ess's

The amount of bubbles on gates in renter space makes flying non nullified ships unreliable at catching anything but the stupidest of ratters. Its now even harder to catch a carrier in nullsec even in intys because of previously mentioned intel and local

regarding the ESS in sites, its easy to work around but only if you can be left alone for 10 mins in your inty (I have done it and bagged 500m from a BoT ess cuz they were idiots and left it alone). still being able to anchor this in a site needs to go because it takes away the risk for their income which was what it was originally designed to introduce. Yes I can get a fleet and roam and get the ess's but I am not going to sacrifice speed and ability to skirmish to obtain what is good isk for 1-2 guys but is not viable when split into 4 or more, especially when I am roaming to catch ratter's that dock faster than a flashy freighter on the jita 4-4 undock

You should defend your ESS not NPC's. You need to risk your isk to get better rewards not let the npc's defend it for you so you don't have to risk anything

Edit: Why change the steal timer to 10 mins? You don't defend it anyway that's too risky and requires pvp or a batphone (I tackled a carrier and had to wait 40 mins for the renters to batphone a corp 3 regions away to cyno hop over to the tackled carrier to chase me off)

You cant expect to have your stuff stolen and then use the excuse "we wasn't ready, should of been a 10 minute timer so we could have a chance to defend it"


You want to "hunt carriers" and "loot ESS", and maybe even "bake a cake" with interceptors. Seriously, choose the right tools for what you want to accomplish. If you want to loot an ESS, bring ships adapted for it. If you want to catch ratters, bring ships adapted for that. I doubt that you use interceptors to shoot POSs?

Also, you can by-pass intel and bubbles with covert cynos. There are lots of ways to catch a ratter if you apply all your skill.
Xaldafax Caerleon
Veritas Theory
#13 - 2014-06-18 14:47:52 UTC
Jess Rawne wrote:
I would like to propose that NPCs shoot ESS structures set in space (only if on grid of course).

My point would be that the intent of the ESS is to create pvp (agressor trying to steal your money, you trying to defend it) and the trick to put the ESS into an anomalie and escalating the site so you have a lot of dps, webs and tackle on field provided by the local pirates you slaughter the whole time defeats the whole purpose of it.

Why would they tolerate an surveillance unit of the empire anyway. Tho i would not suggest to let NPCs spawn on the ESS.

Would like to hear your input.

Furthermore if that idea boats well we could talk about NPCs shooting bubbles on gates/ in Anomalies too.



ESS in an area without the NPC's killing it is an exploit of common sense. If it is there they would get rid of it sooner or later. If people are having issues defending ESS to inteceptors then work to solve the problem another way. Don't just let someone put it into an area where no one can get to it... If I was an NPC I would take the money in the ESS because it gives me back the fund people got for killing my comrad NPCs.
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-06-18 15:09:10 UTC
Ereshgikal wrote:

You want to "hunt carriers" and "loot ESS", and maybe even "bake a cake" with interceptors. Seriously, choose the right tools for what you want to accomplish. If you want to loot an ESS, bring ships adapted for it. If you want to catch ratters, bring ships adapted for that. I doubt that you use interceptors to shoot POSs?

Also, you can by-pass intel and bubbles with covert cynos. There are lots of ways to catch a ratter if you apply all your skill.


So I'm not supposed to use my crow for POS bashing, damn was wondering why I never get them into reinforced.
Dally Lama
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-06-18 17:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Dally Lama
Ereshgikal wrote:
Faren Shalni wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
ess in anomalies is the only counter to ceptor fleets that hunt them on a daily basis. if they want to steal it, bring something bigger than a chicken ass nullified captor that can have the dammed thing looted before your able to dock, change ship and get back out due to its bubble immunity

or if your going to remove it from the ess, change the steal timer to 10 mins


wait you actually reship to defend the ess? Seriously though the reason you see inty fleets is because they are the only ships fast enough to roam a area of space to catch things before the ratters all safe up because of intel channels and local (and local scanning bots auto posting into intel channels) and ceptor fleets are roaming for kills not ess's

The amount of bubbles on gates in renter space makes flying non nullified ships unreliable at catching anything but the stupidest of ratters. Its now even harder to catch a carrier in nullsec even in intys because of previously mentioned intel and local

regarding the ESS in sites, its easy to work around but only if you can be left alone for 10 mins in your inty (I have done it and bagged 500m from a BoT ess cuz they were idiots and left it alone). still being able to anchor this in a site needs to go because it takes away the risk for their income which was what it was originally designed to introduce. Yes I can get a fleet and roam and get the ess's but I am not going to sacrifice speed and ability to skirmish to obtain what is good isk for 1-2 guys but is not viable when split into 4 or more, especially when I am roaming to catch ratter's that dock faster than a flashy freighter on the jita 4-4 undock

You should defend your ESS not NPC's. You need to risk your isk to get better rewards not let the npc's defend it for you so you don't have to risk anything

Edit: Why change the steal timer to 10 mins? You don't defend it anyway that's too risky and requires pvp or a batphone (I tackled a carrier and had to wait 40 mins for the renters to batphone a corp 3 regions away to cyno hop over to the tackled carrier to chase me off)

You cant expect to have your stuff stolen and then use the excuse "we wasn't ready, should of been a 10 minute timer so we could have a chance to defend it"


You want to "hunt carriers" and "loot ESS", and maybe even "bake a cake" with interceptors. Seriously, choose the right tools for what you want to accomplish. If you want to loot an ESS, bring ships adapted for it. If you want to catch ratters, bring ships adapted for that. I doubt that you use interceptors to shoot POSs?

Also, you can by-pass intel and bubbles with covert cynos. There are lots of ways to catch a ratter if you apply all your skill.

If you want to use an ESS you should have to defend it yourself.
Having NPCs defend it for you if the enemy is in X fleet doctine or below is hardly defending it yourself.
It is a structure like any other. NPCs should not defend your starbase or your customs office, so why your other structures?

If they come in interceptors, blap the crap out of them with a webbing T3 fleet or something. You're getting NPCs to do the dirty work for you, then accusing the attackers of essentially being the lazy and/or risk averse ones.

Players should be escalating into larger fleets to fight players who have escalated into larger fleets. This isn't incursions.

New Fitting Window | Distances above 10km | Maximums for buy orders
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#16 - 2014-06-18 18:09:17 UTC
Totally agree with OP

Another thread on the same subject Here

Good luck with the barrage from the care bears in null sec that want their extra LP and income without having to defend the ESS themselves.

I do not understand how CCP can not realize that this exploit has twisted the original design for ESS!

By the way, in my previous thread, not a single one of the current status quo defenders responded to list the overwhelming advantages an ESS raiders has above the defenders that would justify adding an extra layer of NPC defenses...

Keep up the good fight, OP!!

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#17 - 2014-06-18 18:12:01 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
ess in anomalies is the only counter to ceptor fleets that hunt them on a daily basis. if they want to steal it, bring something bigger than a chicken ass nullified captor that can have the dammed thing looted before your able to dock, change ship and get back out due to its bubble immunity

or if your going to remove it from the ess, change the steal timer to 10 mins

The interceptor has to remain 3mn at the ESS while you only need 30 sec to share the content, and you complain... Lol.. Learn to defend your assets yourself..

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#18 - 2014-06-18 18:13:01 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I think it's clever and emergent gameplay.

It's one of the few things that justifies the existence of the ESS in the first place, what's more.

BS

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2014-06-18 21:50:52 UTC
Jess Rawne wrote:
I would like to propose that NPCs shoot ESS structures set in space (only if on grid of course).

My point would be that the intent of the ESS is to create pvp (agressor trying to steal your money, you trying to defend it) and the trick to put the ESS into an anomalie and escalating the site so you have a lot of dps, webs and tackle on field provided by the local pirates you slaughter the whole time defeats the whole purpose of it.

Why would they tolerate an surveillance unit of the empire anyway. Tho i would not suggest to let NPCs spawn on the ESS.

Would like to hear your input.

Furthermore if that idea boats well we could talk about NPCs shooting bubbles on gates/ in Anomalies too.




bubles on gates? thats a nice idea.

but ess on anomaly is cool, after all you have to deal with npc's on the ess your self too.

and people tend to steal isk in ab interceptor or just in pod and than scoop the can with interceptor. i steal from ess like that, and you don't care about npc's Lol
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-06-19 11:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Faren Shalni
Ereshgikal wrote:
Faren Shalni wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
ess in anomalies is the only counter to ceptor fleets that hunt them on a daily basis. if they want to steal it, bring something bigger than a chicken ass nullified captor that can have the dammed thing looted before your able to dock, change ship and get back out due to its bubble immunity

or if your going to remove it from the ess, change the steal timer to 10 mins


wait you actually reship to defend the ess? Seriously though the reason you see inty fleets is because they are the only ships fast enough to roam a area of space to catch things before the ratters all safe up because of intel channels and local (and local scanning bots auto posting into intel channels) and ceptor fleets are roaming for kills not ess's

The amount of bubbles on gates in renter space makes flying non nullified ships unreliable at catching anything but the stupidest of ratters. Its now even harder to catch a carrier in nullsec even in intys because of previously mentioned intel and local

regarding the ESS in sites, its easy to work around but only if you can be left alone for 10 mins in your inty (I have done it and bagged 500m from a BoT ess cuz they were idiots and left it alone). still being able to anchor this in a site needs to go because it takes away the risk for their income which was what it was originally designed to introduce. Yes I can get a fleet and roam and get the ess's but I am not going to sacrifice speed and ability to skirmish to obtain what is good isk for 1-2 guys but is not viable when split into 4 or more, especially when I am roaming to catch ratter's that dock faster than a flashy freighter on the jita 4-4 undock

You should defend your ESS not NPC's. You need to risk your isk to get better rewards not let the npc's defend it for you so you don't have to risk anything

Edit: Why change the steal timer to 10 mins? You don't defend it anyway that's too risky and requires pvp or a batphone (I tackled a carrier and had to wait 40 mins for the renters to batphone a corp 3 regions away to cyno hop over to the tackled carrier to chase me off)

You cant expect to have your stuff stolen and then use the excuse "we wasn't ready, should of been a 10 minute timer so we could have a chance to defend it"


You want to "hunt carriers" and "loot ESS", and maybe even "bake a cake" with interceptors. Seriously, choose the right tools for what you want to accomplish. If you want to loot an ESS, bring ships adapted for it. If you want to catch ratters, bring ships adapted for that. I doubt that you use interceptors to shoot POSs?

Also, you can by-pass intel and bubbles with covert cynos. There are lots of ways to catch a ratter if you apply all your skill.


You cant bypass intel channels with a covert cyno unless you have a direct WH connection. the moment your cyno toon turns up in local any where near main ratting areas. Instantly into the intel channel. also the only ship fast enough to jump into system, dscan to get a rough idea where targets are and then warp and tackle and survive till backup arrives is an interceptor. recons are to slow covops cant survive, stealth bombers will die.

Looting an ess is second priority to catching ratters as they are the shiny badly fitted ships that make it worth the effort. the ESS is only worth the effort if it has over 50m.

You can tackle ratters if they are stupid, you can use a covert cyno if they are stupid. Until local is removed as an intel channel the only way to catch your normal ratter is with intys and thats if your lucky and guess the right site first time

So Much Space
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