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High sec GANKING
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Velicitia
XS Tech
#381 - 2014-06-13 10:04:53 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Michael Lafleur wrote:
Try playing Mortal Combat with a friend that is at least 2 times better than you, you rapidly get tired of losing.


This is the essence of your misunderstanding. Every single person who understands this game would never have this attitude. They would keep trying, practice and keep getting their posterior kicked until they figured out how to beat him.



Blanka with that electricity ball shield thing Cool

er wait, that was street fighter ... same difference tho

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Michael Lafleur
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#382 - 2014-06-13 16:59:58 UTC
fine ... i give up ...

you poor gankers all are so nerfed ... you can barely do anything without being killed in the action

you rarely win any isk, or have some fun in your rare victory from the time you decide to engage someone

you all think like that, really ?, I just cannot believe it ...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#383 - 2014-06-13 19:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Michael Lafleur wrote:
fine ... i give up ...

you poor gankers all are so nerfed ... you can barely do anything without being killed in the action

you rarely win any isk, or have some fun in your rare victory from the time you decide to engage someone

you all think like that, really ?, I just cannot believe it ...
This post only goes to show you've either failed to read and comprehend what was said, or you have no intention on learning.

A few facts.

Ganking has been nerfed constantly for quite some time. We always adapt, but people constantly ask for more nerfs.
Suicide ganking always ends in the loss of a ship by the ganker and being below -5 opens you up to be shot by anyone anywhere. We accept it and still have fun.

We win ISK when bad pilots allow it and the loot fairy drops items, but fun is always present. Except for the gankees who have been known to send hate mail, some seem to forget they are playing a game.

Nothing is guaranteed.

We don't think all that, we know it. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Count Szadek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#384 - 2014-06-14 02:15:58 UTC
Freighter's Counter to Ganking: Hyena Alt / Corp Mate that you trust
Velicitia
XS Tech
#385 - 2014-06-14 02:18:58 UTC
Count Szadek wrote:
Freighter's Counter to Ganking: Hyena Alt / Corp Mate that you trust


I have 2 logibro, a falcon, and a web guy... Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Iain Cariaba
#386 - 2014-06-14 03:41:09 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Wall of text describing ways to not get ganked.

The problem, Shah, is that while your's is the third or fourth time in 20 pages that this has been brought up, the carebears don't want to listen. They don't want to take these steps cause in their delusions of mediocrity it cuts down on how much isk they can make. They would rather have someone else fix their supposed problem, like small children do, then protect themselves. Somehow they think the devs at CCP are the mommy that's going to kiss their ganking boo-boo away.

Then again, they could have all been raised on the prototype for America's Common Core educational system and truly think having to replace a 1.5 billion isk ship and 5-10 billion isk in cargo rather than take several trips to haul it is profitable.
Mythic Man
Heimatar Hull Mining Group
#387 - 2014-06-15 09:25:20 UTC
Now that I re-subbed (3 years offline), it was nice to see I could just throw a couple of tags and a few million ISK at Concord instead of suffering the consequences of my former evil self.

I remember hearing rumors from back in the day where pirates had to grind for months in nullsec in order to enter highsec again when they'd been a bad boy.

I guess, looking at recent years changes, that CCP is of the opposite opinion than the OP.
It almost seems as if they want EVE to be a cold and harsh universe, full of pirates and stuff.

Who'd have guessed that game about a cold, harsh universe, would actually have a cold, harsh universe?
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#388 - 2014-06-15 16:50:11 UTC
Oh look, this thread is still going...
Would've thought it would be gone by now, guess not vOv

To the OP, HTFU
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#389 - 2014-06-15 20:45:49 UTC
There should be limit though of how many tags a - 10 Red is Dead Pilot should be able to sell to Concord within any given month.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#390 - 2014-06-15 20:57:23 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
There should be limit though of how many tags a - 10 Red is Dead Pilot should be able to sell to Concord within any given month.



They're completely dependent on how many he can find (or afford).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Mag's
Azn Empire
#391 - 2014-06-15 21:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
DrysonBennington wrote:
There should be limit though of how many tags a - 10 Red is Dead Pilot should be able to sell to Concord within any given month.
Why exactly?

I for one wouldn't use them because of A. The cost of overuse is prohibitive and B. There is no reason other than an end of piracy, to even use tags.

Neither case, would be affected by a limit. So are you simply after some arbitrary nerf?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#392 - 2014-06-15 21:04:48 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
There should be limit though of how many tags a - 10 Red is Dead Pilot should be able to sell to Concord within any given month.


Tags cost a lot dude. A lot a lot. Sure you can technically buy as many as you want, but you'll quickly spend way more than you want to if you do. That's why most gank toons are dedicated gankers and the guys use alts who don't gank to actually fly around and fight.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#393 - 2014-06-15 22:19:16 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
There should be limit though of how many tags a - 10 Red is Dead Pilot should be able to sell to Concord within any given month.


Near no gankers use them.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#394 - 2014-06-15 22:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerakh
Iain Cariaba wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Wall of brilliant text describing ways to not get ganked.

The problem, Shah, is that while your's is the third or fourth time in 20 pages that this has been brought up, the carebears don't want to listen. They don't want to take these steps cause in their delusions of mediocrity it cuts down on how much isk they can make. They would rather have someone else fix their supposed problem, like small children do, then protect themselves. Somehow they think the devs at CCP are the mommy that's going to kiss their ganking boo-boo away.

Then again, they could have all been raised on the prototype for America's Common Core educational system and truly think having to replace a 1.5 billion isk ship and 5-10 billion isk in cargo rather than take several trips to haul it is profitable.


As I've stated in other posts, a large part of it, I'm willing to bet, is due to the mentality players from other MMOs bring over. WoW is used as a typical example so I'll use that one. In WoW you have PVP zones and no-PVP zones. The average player first starting their career sees this as a parallel in highsec and assumes that's the intent and the design.

It's primarily a problem of misinformation started by false assumptions and further proliferated by highsec carebears in an area with easy access to new players(which results in further propagation of the misinformation(quite the perpetual problem)). Really, this is a failure on CCP's part to effectively communicate that no system is completely safe and that it is intended to be that way.

Schrodinger's Hot Dropper

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Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#395 - 2014-06-15 22:55:05 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
As I've stated in other posts, a large part of it, I'm willing to bet, is due to the mentality players from other MMOs bring over. WoW is used as a typical example so I'll use that one. In WoW you have PVP zones and no-PVP zones. The average player first starting their career sees this as a parallel in highsec and assumes that's the intent and the design.

It's primarily a problem of misinformation started by false assumptions and further proliferated by highsec carebears in an area with easy access to new players(which results in further propagation of the misinformation(quite the perpetual problem)). Really, this is a failure on CCP's part to effectively communicate that no system is completely safe and that it is intended to be that way.


CCP does actually state it, but they don't really reinforce it. That information ends up getting lost though with carebears talking about WH space, 0.0 and low sec where violence is allowed. They compare that to where Concorde will respond to any violence and assume that no one would be willing to lose their ship in order to shoot them and so violence won't happen unless the other person really wants to hurt you. They have no idea that ganking can be profitable if the targets are carrying enough cargo. Or if they are aware they certainly don't seem to think it will happen to them.

I agree that it would be beneficial to new players to be better made aware that violence can occur anywhere anytime, and is in fact quite likely to do so. This has a lot to do with corporations that recruit new players not really knowing much about the game and how things actually work. As was mentioned, misinformation end up compounding on more misinformation.

CCP does state that no space is completely safe anywhere ever.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#396 - 2014-06-15 23:05:35 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
As I've stated in other posts, a large part of it, I'm willing to bet, is due to the mentality players from other MMOs bring over. WoW is used as a typical example so I'll use that one. In WoW you have PVP zones and no-PVP zones. The average player first starting their career sees this as a parallel in highsec and assumes that's the intent and the design.

It's primarily a problem of misinformation started by false assumptions and further proliferated by highsec carebears in an area with easy access to new players(which results in further propagation of the misinformation(quite the perpetual problem)). Really, this is a failure on CCP's part to effectively communicate that no system is completely safe and that it is intended to be that way.


CCP does actually state it, but they don't really reinforce it. That information ends up getting lost though with carebears talking about WH space, 0.0 and low sec where violence is allowed. They compare that to where Concorde will respond to any violence and assume that no one would be willing to lose their ship in order to shoot them and so violence won't happen unless the other person really wants to hurt you. They have no idea that ganking can be profitable if the targets are carrying enough cargo. Or if they are aware they certainly don't seem to think it will happen to them.

I agree that it would be beneficial to new players to be better made aware that violence can occur anywhere anytime, and is in fact quite likely to do so. This has a lot to do with corporations that recruit new players not really knowing much about the game and how things actually work. As was mentioned, misinformation end up compounding on more misinformation.

CCP does state that no space is completely safe anywhere ever.


Sure, I never denied that, but it's quickly glazed over and forgotten. The statement isn't very firmly reinforced, which results in it being lost. For example the new player FAQ states it about 2/3rds of the way through the pdf. I would be willing to bet a an exceedingly small number of players have actually ever read the document.

I'm not saying a big red wall of text needs to be placed on your screen every time you log in, but the tutorial could use a firmer stance to help dissuade the incorrect ideals that are commonly passed around in highsec.

Schrodinger's Hot Dropper

The Fate of Forum Alts

Guaranteed Success
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#397 - 2014-06-15 23:11:11 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:


Sure, I never denied that, but it's quickly glazed over and forgotten. The statement isn't very firmly reinforced, which results in it being lost. For example the new player FAQ states it about 2/3rds of the way through the pdf. I would be willing to bet a an exceedingly small number of players have actually ever read the document.

I'm not saying a big red wall of text needs to be placed on your screen every time you log in, but the tutorial could use a firmer stance to help dissuade the incorrect ideals that are commonly passed around in highsec.


I fully agree with all of that. How about a training mission that sends you to Jita, then flags you all of a sudden for no reason. (whoops did the mission description forget to mention that, now you're actually dead.) Or something along those lines. Make it clear that other players will violence you if given the opportunity, or a reason.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#398 - 2014-06-15 23:16:27 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:


Sure, I never denied that, but it's quickly glazed over and forgotten. The statement isn't very firmly reinforced, which results in it being lost. For example the new player FAQ states it about 2/3rds of the way through the pdf. I would be willing to bet a an exceedingly small number of players have actually ever read the document.

I'm not saying a big red wall of text needs to be placed on your screen every time you log in, but the tutorial could use a firmer stance to help dissuade the incorrect ideals that are commonly passed around in highsec.


I fully agree with all of that. How about a training mission that sends you to Jita, then flags you all of a sudden for no reason. (whoops did the mission description forget to mention that, now you're actually dead.) Or something along those lines. Make it clear that other players will violence you if given the opportunity, or a reason.


I think that's a little extreme. Plus, suddenly ripping the rug out from under the player is pretty questionable game design. You don't want the player to feel betrayed by the game mechanics.

Schrodinger's Hot Dropper

The Fate of Forum Alts

Guaranteed Success
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#399 - 2014-06-15 23:34:51 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
Tengu Grib wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:


Sure, I never denied that, but it's quickly glazed over and forgotten. The statement isn't very firmly reinforced, which results in it being lost. For example the new player FAQ states it about 2/3rds of the way through the pdf. I would be willing to bet a an exceedingly small number of players have actually ever read the document.

I'm not saying a big red wall of text needs to be placed on your screen every time you log in, but the tutorial could use a firmer stance to help dissuade the incorrect ideals that are commonly passed around in highsec.


I fully agree with all of that. How about a training mission that sends you to Jita, then flags you all of a sudden for no reason. (whoops did the mission description forget to mention that, now you're actually dead.) Or something along those lines. Make it clear that other players will violence you if given the opportunity, or a reason.


I think that's a little extreme. Plus, suddenly ripping the rug out from under the player is pretty questionable game design. You don't want the player to feel betrayed by the game mechanics.


Fair enough. There should be something that indicates to them that these things happen and you need to plan for them though.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#400 - 2014-06-16 12:10:54 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:


Fair enough. There should be something that indicates to them that these things happen and you need to plan for them though.


Every time EVE is brought up in any other game it is generally followed by people ranting how we are the scum of the universe. On top of that you have widespread reviews, mainstream news, many EVE related sites. If new players don't know about what happens in EVE its their own fault for simply not looking before they jump.