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Discussing the way in which people communicate on these forums

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Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#21 - 2014-06-15 02:37:24 UTC
NoThisIsntItAtAll MakeIt MorePSSSHHHH wrote:

With that said I won't lie, my motivation for this thread is coming from here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=351378&post=79
In lieue of recent threads making the claim that players do not post on these forums due to the excessive amounts of trolling, the OP of this thread claiming he won't be returning here since he was trolled did indeed stand out a bit.

What is your opinion on the matter?


I think the OP of that thread ought to have had his posting privileges revoked for making a thread that bad.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2014-06-15 02:41:23 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Every forum has its white knight defenders and flagrant trolls. They're just more passionate about it over here. Personally, I feel like if the Original Posters were to be more diplomatic in their complaints about this and that then there would be more meaningful debate. However most threads I read with complaints come off as thinly veiled or blatant rants about what's wrong with the game and how this game will die if it's not fixed the way it suits them. That tends to draw a slight bit of ire.
Pretty much this. The OP of any given thread tends to set the tone of the thread, and by the first re-post of that poster to address comments or questions, you can get a good picture of where it is going.

Even when the OP has a decent enough point, if s/he can't articulate properly or if s/he blows up completely when encountering opposition our counter-arguments (and this happens shockingly often), it goes south pretty fast. And that's not even mentioning the dead-horse topics that people just lay into immediately, either to point out that it's a downright antedeluvian topic or to just pick up an inflamed discussion where it left off in one of those pre-existing threads.

It's sometimes easy to forget that this is essentially a political forum — with only a vanishingly small number of exceptions, every idea will be for and against something that some people enjoy and others loathe. They'll respond accordingly. That's why the initial tone is so important: because, contrary to popular belief, most people are not out to bring a discussion down. However, if it's already pointing down-hill, they're more than happy to roll with it.
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-06-15 02:51:23 UTC
It seems EVE-like to allow some level of rivalry in the forums, but too often it degrades into childish insults and harassment. This is a game. Before you hit 'Post' ask yourself what would happen if you said it to their face. If the answer is "I'd get hit" then you should probably hit backspace.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#24 - 2014-06-15 03:07:58 UTC
Its asshats that dont post with their mains that ruin the forums for everyone.

S
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o
u
s
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internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#25 - 2014-06-15 03:56:46 UTC
It is like debate classes,except that you have people of different ages, nationalities and cultures, that may not conceive debate in the same light... but all are sharing the same passion, in different ways.
You just need a good leather armor, but overall it is not that bad...
Except for the goons lobbyists, those ones are really bad Big smile

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#26 - 2014-06-15 03:58:44 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Its asshats that dont post with their mains that ruin the forums for everyone.

S
e
r
i
o
u
s
l
y
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Oh! Hi there Smile

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#27 - 2014-06-15 04:46:49 UTC
NoThisIsntItAtAll MakeIt MorePSSSHHHH wrote:
Everyone knows these forums are a harsh place. If you post a bad idea, you will be scolded for doing so. If you post a good idea, you will likely be scolded for doing so too. None the less EVE is a harsh world and this does follow suit. On the other hand, it is the official forums for people to discuss ideas on.

The question becomes: Should communicating in poor taste be allowed?

Is there a precedent for CCP to start banning forum members for distasteful communications?
Or should they allow the communication style that is popular on here to continue on unscathed?

I am seriously bringing this forward as a point of discussion. There is perhaps reasonable point to be made that the aggressive nature of the New Eden universe should spill over into the forums.

With that said I won't lie, my motivation for this thread is coming from here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=351378&post=79
In lieue of recent threads making the claim that players do not post on these forums due to the excessive amounts of trolling, the OP of this thread claiming he won't be returning here since he was trolled did indeed stand out a bit.

What is your opinion on the matter?


First of all, I think ISD is doing a great job keeping the forums clean. For example, I have reported this thread for discussing forum moderation and I'm pretty sure it will be locked (maybe even before I finish typing this post).

Second thing is, if your original post is meaningful and have at least some common sense and EVE related content, you will notice that the replies are useful.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#28 - 2014-06-15 05:37:47 UTC
NoThisIsntItAtAll MakeIt MorePSSSHHHH wrote:
What is your opinion on the matter?

wut?

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-06-15 06:19:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
That's why the initial tone is so important: because, contrary to popular belief, most people are not out to bring a discussion down. However, if it's already pointing down-hill, they're more than happy to roll with it.

Best explanation for GD behavior I've ever read.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Dave stark
#30 - 2014-06-15 06:35:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
I've always found, on any forum, that the quality of the replies are exactly proportionate to the quality of the OP.

if you're going to post an obviously stupid idea, or ask a question that comes up almost daily, or just flat out whine and be factually incorrect... then people aren't going to take you seriously, and being 'trolled' is what will happen.

to be honest, if people don't post because of the "excessive amount of trolling" then i don't really feel it's any great loss. If you're not confident that your well thought out, factually correct, and reasonably coherent idea won't be ridiculed and mocked... then it's probably not as well thought out, factually correct, or reasonably coherent as you've convinced yourself it is.

edit: also, if you think there's too much trolling or rule breaking. report it. CCP have limited resources and unless you report a rule breaking post they won't have time to go looking for it themselves.

second edit: also this.
Solecist Project
#31 - 2014-06-15 07:21:26 UTC
Allowing people to have opinions creates the whole issue in the first place.

Abolish opinions.
Teach people how to think properly.


Problem solved.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#32 - 2014-06-15 07:35:19 UTC
I think any OP should deal with trolling. Its part of life. Every time you say something, there's a fair chance there's going to be a troll. A forum has the luxury of nobody seeing your response. Giving you the best weapon you can possible have against a troll: silence.

Derailing a post and going off topic is not trolling.

Now... I cant say anything dude. I'm being watched...
Solecist Project
#33 - 2014-06-15 09:44:06 UTC
Yarda Black wrote:
I think any OP should deal with trolling. Its part of life. Every time you say something, there's a fair chance there's going to be a troll. A forum has the luxury of nobody seeing your response. Giving you the best weapon you can possible have against a troll: silence.

Derailing a post and going off topic is not trolling.

Now... I cant say anything dude. I'm being watched...
It's not even possible to recognize every troll out there.

Think about Tippia. She's been trolling these forums for years
and she can keep doing it forever, because she's doing it right! xD

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Sykaotic
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-06-15 09:49:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Sykaotic
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Every forum has its white knight defenders and flagrant trolls.


Not every forum. But many gaming ones do and the older the games get the worse the forums get.

I have never really found much use on the forums, but wish I could. (played a bit in 2010 also)

I block all of the trolls aka "forum content creators" and still find it loaded with bs. Many other sites and blogs offer much better advice / help with the game.

I think they should re do the entire forums. Very stale and smells like old cheese.

In the mean time, join me in killing all miners, mission runners etc... if we all join together, there will be none left, an extremely intelligent plan, just like the forum "content creators" are helping with the forums.



Pirate
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#35 - 2014-06-15 09:50:59 UTC
Sykaotic wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Every forum has its white knight defenders and flagrant trolls.


Not every forum. But many gaming ones do and the older the games get the worse the forums get.

I have never really found much use on the forums, but wish I could. (played a bit in 2010 also)

I block all of the trolls aka "forum content creators" and still find it loaded with bs. Many other sites and blogs offer much better advice / help with the game.

I think they should re do the entire forums. Very stale and smells like old cheese.

In the mean time, join me in killing all miners, mission runners etc... if we all join together, there will be none left, an extremely intelligent plan, just like the forum "content creators" are helping with the forums.



Pirate


Aww lookit isn't it cute

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Dave stark
#36 - 2014-06-15 09:59:42 UTC
Sykaotic wrote:
I have never really found much use on the forums, but wish I could. (played a bit in 2010 also)

knowing about upcoming changes isn't useful?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#37 - 2014-06-15 10:13:42 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
It's not even possible to recognize every troll out there.

Think about Tippia. She's been trolling these forums for years
and she can keep doing it forever, because she's doing it right! xD

Well sure, but that's because “doing it right” entails not actually trolling, but rather having lots of people tick the wrong box in the simple questionnaire Dave Stark posted.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-06-15 10:20:35 UTC
I've always believed that the biggest mistake is taking yourself too seriously. If you come wading in with your "unassailable supreme idea, that will revolutionise the game, and only lackwits will not see the gloriousness of the vision" you are in trouble. Not only because your idea is likely nothing like that, and you are staring at it from a narrow, incomplete viewpoint, but because people just love poking blowhards with no sense of humour.

Show a touch of self-depreciation, and a willingness to take constructive criticism; roll with the first couple of punches with a smile on your face instead of rising up, going bright red, and spitting righteous venom back, and you'll find the forum fun, helpful, and constructive, and in place of the outright hammering to the face, you'll get some decent discussion (with an amusing sideline or two).
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-06-15 11:07:15 UTC
NoThisIsntItAtAll MakeIt MorePSSSHHHH wrote:
If you post a good idea, you will likely be scolded for doing so too.


Nope. This is a delusion. I've posted good ideas that were well received, and I've seen many good ideas that I can get behind. What you're talking about here is Dunning-Kruger on behalf of the badposter who thinks they're a goodposter but doesn't realise how bad they are.

NoThisIsntItAtAll MakeIt MorePSSSHHHH wrote:
The question becomes: Should communicating in poor taste be allowed?


There are already rules against posting in poor taste. See up there at the top right of the screen where there's a link to the forum rules? I suggest you read them. They define in no uncertain terms what is in poor taste.

I might just add, also, that if you don't like the way communication takes place in these forums, you would not survive long in an academic arena. The peer review process is scary, like a pack of sharks coming to dismember your idea limb from limb without mercy. There is no such thing as polite communication when you submit a thesis or a paper for review - they just tell you its bad, and why. Straight to the point. They'll even give you really bad side-eye if it's in person. In fact, you'll get the side-eye even if they like the idea.

NoThisIsntItAtAll MakeIt MorePSSSHHHH wrote:
Is there a precedent for CCP to start banning forum members for distasteful communications?


There already is. CCP will ban people from the forums that are repeatedly breaking the forum rules, or in extreme cases, on the first offense. You're not producing a productive discussion.. What you're doing parallels asking for safety in highsec - you want a cottonwool padding around your precious 'feelings'. The thing is, no one likes being disagreed with, and no one has to. Everyone, however, has to accept that everyone else has the right to disagree and the right to be blunt about it, even if it offends you. If we stop criticising bad ideas just because the person being criticised feels offended, which is offense more often than not claimed over mere disagreement, then the bad ideas go left unchecked.

By the way, what separates a bad idea from a good idea are the merits of the argument for or against, not whether or not someone is offended by it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#40 - 2014-06-15 11:12:57 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

By the way, what separates a bad idea from a good idea are the merits of the argument for or against, not whether or not someone is offended by it.


Hear Hear

Like nuclear power, eating meat or solving the economic and social problems of an entire country through a process of downsizing.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

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