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[:?:] Why are the collision boxes on asteroids so oversized?

Author
Pamela Penken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-06-13 23:56:43 UTC
I just lost a ship because I got stuck on an asteroid while trying to warp out... Or rather I was stuck on an asteroid trying to warp out when a foe warped in and scrammed and killed me.

Now dying or losing stuff due to getting stuck in or on geography due to faulty models or collision boxes is never fun.
Which is why making sure that doesn't happen is so important in most games.


Which bring me to my questions;

Why are the collisionboxes for asteroids so oversized compared to the actual model in the first place?

I could have fit a battleship between my ship and the asteroid in question yet the game insisted that my ship try to avoid it making it wobble up and down when it tried to warp.
In fact, while bumping into things seems to be the norm for EvE, asteroids seem to be the exception as anyone that's flown in a belt knows your ship will start turning and twisting to avoid asteroids that visually is no where close to the ship, often times not even in the direction of the flight path.
I mean my ship was parallel to the asteroid with nothing, not that particular astroid or any other objects in front of the ship or even visible when looking in the forward direction. In fact, the visual distance between my ship and the model of the asteroid was so big that it was only by looking at the overview you could see that I was close to it.
Yet my ship kept alternating between trying to fly around an invisible collision box and aligning out. Not succeding with either.



Why hasn't anything been don't to avoid that people get stuck on asteroids while warping?


It isn't like getting stuck on asteroids while trying to warp out adds any important content to the game. Quite the opposite since getting stuck on invisible collision boxes is something most players of computer games would consider an annyoing bug.
And it isn't like this is a difficult problem to fix.
I can think of several solutions on the top of my head, first of all fix the collision boxes so their sizes coresponds with the actual model of the asteroid.
And while giving ships a better AI for paths when warping out or implementing some sort of immunity when stuck on a asteroid is rather complex solutions, the game already makes objects intangible when the speed reach 75% of maximum so why not make that happen a lot sooner.
It wouldn't change things to any significant degree as ships would still need to align and speed up to warp and could still be bumped during that. The only difference would be that it would let you warp instead of getting stuck.


I know I'm ranting but I just lost a ship and it's quite valuable cargo of loot by no fault of my own.

Now I don't mind losing ships it's part of the game. you just learn from it and move on.

Except in this case there was nothing to learn from it.
I didn't make any mistake that got me killed. I can't see invisible things so I had no way of knowing that my path was blocked. And the guy who killed me wasn't a better pilot than me or if he was it really didn't affect the outcome as I was stuck and it took me several seconds before I managed to unstuck myself from the invisible thing that had me immobile in space. After all it takes a while figuring out which way is blocked if you can't see it.
In fact, the only reason it even was a fight was because an invisible wall prevented me from warping. If I hadn't been we would never even seen each other as I would have warped off before he had even warped in.

So yeah when I lose a ship because my computer blows up or some bug prevents me do anything about it I do mind it.


Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2 - 2014-06-14 00:04:42 UTC
Please do not mention the physics engine. It makes the programmers nervous.
Solecist Project
#3 - 2014-06-14 00:05:06 UTC
Because they're spheres.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-06-14 00:08:36 UTC
Why were you so damned close to the thing in the first place? Strips go out to 15k, or better yet get above or below the damed things and have a clear path to your warpout of you have to get close to the things.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 

BLACK-STAR
#5 - 2014-06-14 00:51:16 UTC
I nearly had an embarrassing encounter by NPCs in a 1b+ Machariel. I could tank, but usually panic plays a factor and you sometimes lose common sense.

I dropped out of warp inside rocks and I couldn't align, I was bumped and got scrambled. Point blank range and only defense was drones and cancelling the warp and manually click furiously out of the rock and punching the afterburner F-key. I fought out alive from that predicament.

I returned and destroyed all. I can only understand how OP feels slightly. Furious.
GreenSeed
#6 - 2014-06-14 00:53:00 UTC
the problem with asteroids is that hitboxes don't seem to update as the asteroid gets smaller. just stay at range.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#7 - 2014-06-14 01:14:46 UTC
You answered your own question.

Pamela Penken wrote:

Why are the collisionboxes for asteroids so oversized compared to the actual model in the first place?


Pamela Penken wrote:
I just lost a ship because I got stuck on an asteroid while trying to warp out... Or rather I was stuck on an asteroid trying to warp out when a foe warped in and scrammed and killed me.

Profit favors the prepared

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#8 - 2014-06-14 01:24:18 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Because they're spheres.

Yes, so when a ship hits it, it'll eventually slide across the collision boundary rather than getting stuck if using a cube, or even mesh collision. If you put the collision on the mesh, it's a much greater load on the client computer. A cube is the most resource friendly, but a sphere fits better in this case, wile at the mesh level it would be a nightmare for slower computers.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

stoicfaux
#9 - 2014-06-14 01:32:36 UTC
It's not a collision box. It's the effective boundary indicating how an object's mass interferes with our propulsion systems. Remember, we're not using engines based on Newtonian physics to move, instead we're "surfing" on a wave of bent time/space, a wave that is impaired by nearby gravity wells.

Now if our ships had a large deflector dish, we could work miracles.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Solecist Project
#10 - 2014-06-14 01:49:28 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Because they're spheres.

Yes, so when a ship hits it, it'll eventually slide across the collision boundary rather than getting stuck if using a cube, or even mesh collision. If you put the collision on the mesh, it's a much greater load on the client computer. A cube is the most resource friendly, but a sphere fits better in this case, wile at the mesh level it would be a nightmare for slower computers.
Only that the sphere to sphere collision runs on the server, not on the client.

And the most resource friendly collision detection method is spherical collision detection.

Simply because it's basic math. You just wanna show off ... and fail.

"Simple sphere collision detection D3D" wrote:
BOOL bSphereTest(CObject3D* obj1, CObject3D* obj2 )
{
D3DVECTOR relPos = obj1->prPosition - obj2->prPosition;
float dist = relPos.x * relPos.x + relPos.y * relPos.y + relPos.z * relPos.z;
float minDist = obj1->fRadius + obj2->fRadius;
return dist <= minDist * minDist;
}


http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/math-and-physics/simple-bounding-sphere-collision-detection-r1234



Axis aligned bounding boxes.

"Simple axis aligned bounding boxes collision detection" wrote:
return (a.max_x() >= b.min_x() and a.min_x() <= b.max_x())
and (a.max_y() >= b.min_y() and a.min_y() <= b.max_y())
and (a.max_z() >= b.min_z() and a.min_z() <= b.max_z())


http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3631437/cube-on-cube-collision-detection-algorithm


I suggest visiting http://flipcode.com/archives/articles.shtml and the developer toolbox.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

stoicfaux
#11 - 2014-06-14 02:06:54 UTC
Your collision box so fat that...

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Jamagh
Grand Violations
#12 - 2014-06-14 02:25:30 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Why were you so damned close to the thing in the first place? Strips go out to 15k, or better yet get above or below the damed things and have a clear path to your warpout of you have to get close to the things.



This. I mine on my main, and I have to say, if you are sitting in the belt lurking beside a rock, you deserve to get shot.

"Please stop reopening silly rumor threads."  CCP Navigator.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#13 - 2014-06-14 02:39:12 UTC
Never warp to 0 to belts, acceleration gate or other similar objects.

Warp to 10 and you'll never be caught.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#14 - 2014-06-14 03:06:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Solecist Project wrote:


Axis aligned bounding boxes.

"Simple axis aligned bounding boxes collision detection" wrote:
return (a.max_x() >= b.min_x() and a.min_x() <= b.max_x())
and (a.max_y() >= b.min_y() and a.min_y() <= b.max_y())
and (a.max_z() >= b.min_z() and a.min_z() <= b.max_z())


http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3631437/cube-on-cube-collision-detection-algorithm


Ok, great... here I am... Saturday morning, 5:00AM having breakfast while browsing through forums and preparing for a hell of a working weekend, and I get the stackoverflow link Straight That's programmer's luck X

Cool

To the OP, fit a mining laser next time and mine the rock that's preventing you from warping out. It's the only way to be sure - no rock = no bumping Bear
Ohhhh Feely Nice
Feely Good Logistics
#15 - 2014-06-14 03:54:05 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Webvan wrote:
[quote=Solecist Project]Because they're spheres.

Simply because it's basic math. You just wanna show off ... and fail.

Golden coming from you. You spend all day showing off on these forums... and fail.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-06-14 04:10:57 UTC
Fanfest 2012 asteroid PhysX collision demo

Yep.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#17 - 2014-06-14 04:26:55 UTC
Miner problems.




Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Atalia Madeveda
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-06-14 05:31:07 UTC
:spaghetticodeonline:
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#19 - 2014-06-14 06:44:48 UTC
Atalia Madeveda wrote:
:spaghetticodeonline:

That's actually not unique to EVE... it's an industry standard Lol
Solecist Project
#20 - 2014-06-14 06:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Ohhhh Feely Nice wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Webvan wrote:
[quote=Solecist Project]Because they're spheres.

Simply because it's basic math. You just wanna show off ... and fail.

Golden coming from you. You spend all day showing off on these forums... and fail.

Point out a post of mine where I deliberately try to show off how smart I am
while actually being factually wrong. Good luck. (:

npc forum alt.
so mighty and brave!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

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