Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Of course they won't. Nobody is saying they can. But they can do other things of equal importance that can result in your death... like hard tackling you just long enough for me to apply my scram and web... or applying Ewar to turn the battle more in my favor.

edit: In my last post I gave the opposite reaction to what I put in my first post (first was engaging, second was running). Both are valid ways of fighting. You can "win" simply by not engaging. You can also win by engaging targets you think you can survive against. You learn both by flying and dying as a newbie. It's a process. One that the skill system enforces.


Why are you so obsessed with pointing out that a newbie can never beat you in a 1v1? Of COURSE they won't be able to beat you in a 1v1. Again, this is true in ANY skillpoint based MMO.
The difference is that in EVE you have other options beyond "getting more skillpoints" to even the odds. And that is what the current skill system forces/encourages you to do. By being slow you, the player, become impatient and search for other avenues to make things work.
And with time and specialization, you will eventually begin to operate in a fashion similar to a veteran... taking with you all the experiences and knowledge you accumulated to make "cheap equipment" effective.

If people quit because of this... well... the game is not for everyone.

And no... EVE isn't "hardcore" because it makes you wait. Patience is merely a tool to get to the end you desire. EVE is "hardcore" because it forces you to think around and outside the mechanics/players that hold you back. And the skill system assists with that very nicely by playing to your impatience and making you think.


As a suicide tackler you job is not there to apply damage. It's to hold someone down and LIVE.
Now is tackling limited... sort of. It is useful to others? Immensely. Will it teach you about the game? Absolutely. Will skillpoints make you better at it? Only so much.

And you will not engage a faction frigate because you are flying Tech 1 stuff? I want to insult you but the ISDs will just smack me if I do that. So I'm just going to *facepalm* and say that I was gunning for such targets when I was rookie... and while I often died... I made damn sure I held them down long enough to ensure their deaths too.

Hell... look at my killboard losses for the month of April.
- I lost a Slicer to a bunch of scrub-fit Breechers. I killed two of them... but they still won in terms of efficiency (and probably made some profit off of insurance and my loot).
- That Tristan I lost? I almost won had my guns not burned out (he had less than 25% structure). The Comet pilot started in July 2013. I am an April 2009 player. His EVE-board (when it was still up) showed that his gunnery and drone skills were lower than mine.

Point is... you can engage most things if you think hard enough and/or have enough people and WIN.

It astonishes me that you fail to realize that is the point of the character bazaar.




Hyperbole does not make your basic point any less false.

Speak for yourself, I got a trial send, had no idea what the game was about, actually played the tutorials and got some knowledge about how to acquire information. After just 2 weeks into the game I was already helping others who had difficulties with the game and were way longer in it then me. I could even answer questions correctly and faster then most long time players in the help chat, due to quick usage of the tools at hand.

You got a question, I didn't know the answer, but in about 2 min I could find it for you, link a text guide and a vid. This is no game where you get pre-chewed food and mouth fed. Well, helping is some times like this, but that's interaction, that's ok, Being helpless and too dumb to ask and then whine on the other hand is not.

1.) The Riots: At that point in time, CCP had been releasing unfinished features, promising undelivered content, and more. Incarna's release forced everyone to load the captains quarters and walk around it every time they docked, yet had no relevant gameplay. This caused severe discontent among players, both with those who really wanted the barbies in space game play and those that vehemently didn't want to play barbies in space. However, this was only one factor leading to the Burn Jita riots. The playbase had clearly and nearly-unanimously proclaimed that pay-2-win microtransactions were NOT something we wanted to see in EvE, and CCP publicly stated they would NOT implement them. Then, alongside the deployment of the much anticipated yet extremely disappointing Incarna release, a CCP employee leaked the "Greed is Good" internal memo. In it, CCP pretty much stated they planning to release gold-plated ammo and pay2win microtransactions while completely disregarding the playerbase's desires. The memo's message was the true reason for the Jita Riots, and the $70 Monocle was simply a symbol that represented our plight: CCP development was completely out of touch with the desires, needs, and demands of the playerbase.

2.) The character history, standings, and background are part of the character. It doesn't just spawn into existence with full stats, but must be developed. The character bazaar simply allows you to trade an already developed character to another person's control, which is very different than spawning a brand new character tooled to your every whim.

3.) If I were to give attribute enhancements to significantly increase SP training, I certainly wouldn't bias them towards older players.

In the end, we understand you want to speed up training for your characters. Before we go down the path of how "best" to implement it, I'd like you to explain what is wrong with the current progression! CCP, and the player base, are willing to listen to the problems and difficulties that new players experience, and wants to improve that experience. So please outline what isn't working for you, and we can talk about solutions from there!

I recently just finished skilling a char to be a perfect logi pilot with all the needed skills to lvl 5 so I have a good idea of how long it takes to spec towards certain ship classes even today. yea its nice you guys are getting an easier way of obtaining t2 guns and getting into certain ships than us vets did. the skill system, what is left of it is fine as it is

Two things:
It seems to me old-time players are accustomed to spending a lot of real-life time like days, weeks and in some bad cases even months to get a specific degree of a skill. You revolted against CCP and yet you tolerate this BS? And many of you preach the mantra “An achievement feels much better if you spend longer getting there”. Months and years longer when combined? That sort of blindness that is enforced on new players as a standard everyone has to accept I don’t like one bit. Elite… A unique game…

Then I don’t like that I have to wait for days or weeks to get some skills. It is too long. And if I have spent the remaps available for a year, then getting some skills takes even longer. Life goes on. I don’t have an infinite amount of days that I can spend waiting to be able to equip some tier two modules or squeeze a little bit more out of power grid or CPU enhancing skills so that I can fit ships properly the way Battleclinic tells me to. And I don’t care about officer, factions, or deadspace modules or whatever. Those are too expensive. Just regular T2 that seems to be the standard gear.


Once I am no longer on trial and I have paid any amount of money to CCP to play the game, I have every right to speak what I want and how I want in accordance with the terms of service. You don’t care about me. Why do I have to care about you? Your post is not productive. Move along.

1. The Monocle was talked about and it's cost. But the real issue was the greed is good letter leak and the idea that CCP intended selling P2W items via MT.

2. That's the whole point. Characters via the bazaar already exist on the server, they already acquired their SP through normal game mechanics. But they come with baggage and you need to be selective, in order to reduce the amount of baggage you get.
This includes the name, where the SP is distributed and their history.
These are costs that SHOULD be there, when buying a char from the bazaar.

3. No, you suggested P2W and we do not want it. History tells us that.

CCP is not infallible, hence the history we mentioned, but they do have a track record of this game growing over ten + years.
They have done this by keeping the core of the game, pretty much the same as it was from the start. The issue we face, are players like yourself wishing to undermine that and remove the core. We will fight tooth and nail to prevent it.

Yes Eve is a vast and complicated game, no one ever said different. This is another reason why all these ideas will not work, they are simply not required. Understanding and a little patience goes a long way in Eve, as well as a good corp. If you end up in a corp with a CEO or member, telling you you need all level 5s or a BS to do this or that, then you'll be screwed. But that isn't the fault of the game.

You coming here peddling these ideas, simply perpetuates those bad ideas. So don't expect anyone but those with little understanding, to welcome them.

You posted the other day, the following:

Turns out you cannot train them all at once, you can only train them as we do in Eve. One at a time. But we do now have the option to train all three and play one to make the ISK for that. Something that WoW lacks. It also lacks the ability to train whilst not logged on.

Why? Because they are not the same game. Their skill acquisition and usage, is not the same. It's all well and good coming here looking through your WoW coloured glasses, but they are tainting your view and making you miss the obvious.

Also, it's an awful idea.

Yeah, well, I'm on the "older player" end of the spectrum ... so "started out" as in "well, I played for 18 months as a miner / industrialist / jack of all trades". (2007-08)

Can you read?

Bittervets want to keep ahead as they have 11+years of continual skill queuing. if some newb can sign into eve and on day 30 can fly a titan, then it'll just be alts-in-space and the game would just be absolute chaos. Throw-away-alts would be absolutely viable as a mechanism to wreck havoc on unprecedented scales. It would do more harm than good in every angle and direction conceivable.