Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Remove attributes and attribute implants. Skills train at 2700 SP/hr and the SP is deposited in to a free SP pool that is capped at 1-3 mil SP. Then when you want to train a skill you just apply the SP out of the pool. Simple for noobs to understand and not screw up and allows them to PvP without worrying about losing their +3 implants. Nice for us older players that may not be able always have access to Eve due to business trips, military deployments, etc.

I agree about implants being an issue (there is another thread for that), as well as flying solo, but everything else is game play related.
The veteran can always adjust to the 'fresh' friend and not only in style and mods, but in the choice of the engagements and much more, with advice.
I was fresh not so long ago, but the skill training was never an issue, I kept being informed and just in my second month I commited to the Odyssey changes and trained for all BC level 5 for the reimburcement. Nothing beats attentiveness and knowing how to get information. Gameplay catering is for other games, not EVE.

Again, I am not agreeing with some skill issues either, its still not as difficult and disheartening as it is made out to be.

As one thought of mine, I would like to see certain 'low gain' or plain unlocking skills reduced by at least one multiplier. As well as certain spcialisations changed to be more difficult to train from level 3 on while kept at the same overall time invested, like 4/28 days to like 8/20.
In general, the last multiplier could be lowered by at least 25%, which can be distrubuted throught level 4 for lower skills and 1-4 for higher skills this makes everything way more pleasent for the skills that seem to eb a 'must have' or otherwise obligatory requisit. - Still, going back th my previous statement this is mostly just a cosmetic application on a subjective feeling.

And on anther note, whatever changes will come, even plain cuts, in 6 months, 12 months, threads will open with 'skilltraining takes too long' ... think about that. I bet years ago players whished passionately for what we have now, practically begged for it, only for us to complain ´this is soooo difficult and unjust' !

Again, just think about it.

Cheers

It is interesting to see the common reply of SP don't matter that much, new players can be just as effective as a 10 year vet. But then turn around and scream bloody murder if any idea is presented about changing the process in any way.

But it is unique for better or for worse

all else being equal, then yeah SP's give an edge. But not all else is equal. Thats how many players quite often kill players older than themselves. Some players get kills during their free trials for crying out loud.

I like the skill system. It takes so long to train everything it makes u think about and decide what u want to train into and when. U try to make the most of ur time so every skill choice is a meaningful decision. Makes the game interesting.

OP has two threads. Both are bad idea's. Both are based on experiences of other games when, EVE is a niche game and owes its success to not being like other games.

Edit
And of course shes started a corp without knowing anything about the game and filled it with alts/noobs. So the next thread we can expect from her will be about war decs.

Christ, I keep telling myself not to bite but this just can't go unanswered...


A lot of your arguments are hyperbolic.

Yes, a newbie will not be able to stand toe to toe against a veteran in the same ship with the same fit. I cannot even think of one skillpoint based MMO game that allows for this to even happen... however...

- it is rare for any two people to be flying the same ship with the same exact fit. This means that there will almost always be a difference in capabilities and tactics which can give the edge to either person.
And like I said in my previous post in this thread, "ships and weapons have been balanced against one another." If a veteran is in a HAC or battleship, the newbie can just fly away rather than engage. And he/she cannot be caught due to the nature of frigates (high mobility). And the veterans will not chase because in order to catch that newbie frigate they have to ship down... which takes time... while that newbie frigate gets further and further away.

- there is no rule that says the newbie must be alone or fight alone. In fact, the game is designed such that you gain more advantages by teaming up with others than you ever could by having more skillpoints/specializations and better grade ships/equipment.
True... some will want to be solo just on principle... but then they must accept that their road will be a fair bit harder because they have to spend more time filling up all the gaps in their skills.
And no... the game cannot really be made easier for a "soloist" without creating complete arbitrary conditions and restrictions. People who work together are subject to the same mechanics and have access to the same tools. In a sense, they are "solo players" too... they just choose to pool those solo resources with others.

- Just because you are limited in what you can do (as a newbie) it does not mean that your contribution to a team is meaningless and/or without weight. Being a "tackler" in PvP is quite basically suicide if you have limited skills and knowledge... but even half-success can mean the difference between catching or losing something... or everyone escaping or dying in a fire.
And more than a few veterans are more than willing to supply newbies with suicide tacklers for free (I've done it, as it was done for me). The cost for vets is meaningless for the benefit it provides them... and the newbie gets fodder to learn more about the game in.

- I started PvPing with with Fluffers here when he had less than 2 months of combat skills in him (the other 4 months worth of skills were spread out between core, mining and learning skills).
I died. A lot. I could not 1v1. But I could suicide tackle. And provide Ewar support. And scout. And remote rep pretty well. All of which made me invaluable to the group I was part of. And from there I worked my way up. I expect nothing less from a newbie.

How many times do we need to hear the same arguments from a small handful of players that "new players need (insert generally useless idea that will most likely unbalance the game here)" before we're allowed to say no to those ideas?

Eve is an extremly competitive game and you really should specialize while you learn the nuances. Unlike WoW and almost every other MMO, Eve doesn't have a nice mellow learning curve. It has a cliff, with the broken bodies of those who couldn't hack it piled at the bottom.

Simply allowing you quicker access to bigger shinier ships will only foster more resentment and anger. If you don't know how to use the ship you're flying, and I'm talking real skill not SP, you will lose it. Then you'll either quit, or come crying to forums where you will get no sympathy at all.

Eve Online Learning Curve

This still applies.

1.) It takes a fair amount of time to train perfect skills for any particular ship/career. Please explain why the current system is insufficient and needs to change. What aspects of the game can you NOT play after a few weeks of training?

2.) I started the game before remaps existed, before there was a skill queue, and spent the majority of my first two months training learning skills so I could train skills "faster". Please explain why the 1-remap per year is inadequate. What timeframe would be adequate enough that min/maxing your attributes still carries consequences.

3, 4, & 5.) Those riots you linked above.... they were protesting CCP adding pay2win to the game. Adding premium packs that give out 20m SP is exactly what they were protesting. If you want a head start, find someone else that has already trained a character and buy it from them. This is the entire point of the character bazaar.

I disagree; a pilot on a trial account will literally never kill me in any 1v1 situation. Unless I am afk.

I really like the premise of the skill system.

However, I feel the actual implementation is too difficult for new players, thus negatively impacts player retention. A fresh combat pilot should be able to reasonably fit a t1 frigate, currently they can't even get close for pve or pvp.

They just need to start "combat" pilots with combat skills, "Industrial" pilots with industry skills, probably almost all to level 3. I don't know what number of SP that is, but 3 weeks of training just to finally fill out the slots in the fitting window is ridiculous.

Post your ship and fitting, and I'll create a 2 weak old character that will destroy it.