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lack of Gal Mil Civil War

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wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#201 - 2014-06-05 12:25:59 UTC
the even funnier thing about khan is that after he was done getting stomped by galmil he ran off to highsec stuff for a bit, following the main incursion groups

he then came back and briefly joined galmil and proceeded to SHOOT AT HIS FORMER ALLIES

he then left because (to paraphrase from an interview with him) "killing cal mil is so easy that its boring"

let me repeat that: someone who got wrecked by galmil didnt want to be in galmil because killing calmil was TOO EASY
Epikurus
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#202 - 2014-06-05 12:36:32 UTC
Phox Jorkarzul wrote:
One the other side of the coin I feel as if the Caldari are looking for a leader to lead them to victory, but become scared of it when it's there in reach and implode.



It's a bit tricky to talk about 'CalMil' as a single unit in a historical context as most of the CalMil organisations now are relatively new to FW. What CalMil did in the past is unlikely to reveal a lot about how the current iteration will act as most of the people are different (including a lot at the leadership level).

On the question of looking for a leader, this is, frankly, the last thing we need. Single figureheads are more often polarising than unifying and we will be far better off going down the pluralistic route as this is not only the best way to get numerous organisations working together in the absence of the kind of nullsec framework that pushes towards space dictatorships but will also be more enduring and not liable to collapse in the event of the one true god having RL issues or burning out or moving on.

Re: militia FCs and fleets, not sure how it was when you were here but we have those now. There has been a process of rebuilding since Khan and Vick left, which happened at the same time as Cyrus Mierre went inactive due to RL issues, removing a large proportion of the active militia Fleet Commanders and regular fleets in a short period, but there are now lots of people taking out medium to large fleets on a regular basis. Typically those fleets will have the FC's corp/alliance as its basis but will draw half its manpower from other militia corps (this proportion varies a bit by TZ) and will be open to general militia as well.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#203 - 2014-06-05 14:07:36 UTC
Epikurus wrote:


On the question of looking for a leader, this is, frankly, the last thing we need. Single figureheads are more often polarising than unifying and we will be far better off going down the pluralistic route as this is not only the best way to get numerous organisations working together in the absence of the kind of nullsec framework that pushes towards space dictatorships but will also be more enduring and not liable to collapse in the event of the one true god having RL issues or burning out or moving on.



Truth is found in the strangest places.
Niden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#204 - 2014-06-05 14:12:33 UTC
The discussions in this thread were the basis for my piece this week btw, check it out.

Crossing Zebras: Lowlife - Militia Mentality

/N
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#205 - 2014-06-05 14:26:33 UTC
Niden wrote:
The discussions in this thread were the basis for my piece this week btw, check it out.

Crossing Zebras: Lowlife - Militia Mentality

/N

And an excellent piece it was.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Epikurus
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2014-06-05 14:32:04 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Epikurus wrote:


On the question of looking for a leader, this is, frankly, the last thing we need. Single figureheads are more often polarising than unifying and we will be far better off going down the pluralistic route as this is not only the best way to get numerous organisations working together in the absence of the kind of nullsec framework that pushes towards space dictatorships but will also be more enduring and not liable to collapse in the event of the one true god having RL issues or burning out or moving on.



Truth is found in the strangest places.


I'm a very strange place Cry
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#207 - 2014-06-05 14:45:10 UTC
Props to the core CalMil groups for taking a hard look at how they were doing business and adapting to the times. You're going through the same process GalMil did back in the day, and coming to similar conclusions.

Looking forward to seeing what you all can do with this newfound energy.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Niden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2014-06-05 14:50:13 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Props to the core CalMil groups for taking a hard look at how they were doing business and adapting to the times. You're going through the same process GalMil did back in the day, and coming to similar conclusions.

Looking forward to seeing what you all can do with this newfound energy.


^ This.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#209 - 2014-06-05 15:11:54 UTC
Jesus. This thread is so aweful.

Fine. I will join Caldari if it gets everyone to shut up here and stop posting. Please get those nano hacs ready to go by next week. Let's do this.

#ItsGoTime

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#210 - 2014-06-05 22:22:00 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
Jesus. This thread is so aweful.

Fine. I will join Caldari if it gets everyone to shut up here and stop posting. Please get those nano hacs ready to go by next week. Let's do this.

#ItsGoTime

fight! fight! fight! fight! fight! fight! fight!
Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#211 - 2014-06-11 23:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Subsparx
Deen Wispa wrote:
Jesus. This thread is so aweful.

Fine. I will join Caldari if it gets everyone to shut up here and stop posting. Please get those nano hacs ready to go by next week. Let's do this.

#ItsGoTime


If you run Nano Ishtar fleets I'll supply them for my alliance. Let's do this.

In all seriousness though, aside from the things already stated in this thread, there is also the constant issue of Civil Wars in Caldari. There is another one brewing right now, Heiian is currently at war with another group using shady tactics to AWOX, we have Amarr firing at us, constant drama. People are wary of trusting each other, and building that trust is a long process. Add to that, like mentioned, easy Jita access makes this the standard choice for a militia to join, and you get a lot of inexperienced pilots, trolls, and people looking to AWOX Caldari for ***** and giggles. You still get that over in Gallente, but to a lesser extent. People are far less likely to join a side just to AWOX when it cuts them off from Jita access and makes life more difficult.

The coalition in Caldari right now is strong. The leaders all know each other, we bullshit frequently, hang out on comms, and respond to each others requests for help in as timely manner as possible. However, many of the groups are also new. My alliance grew quickly, and as such is having growing pains. We have disparate groups wanting to run Armor and Shields, and while we have doctrines, not everyone can fly them, Caldari pilots still hate logi, and it's difficult to get things solidified. We simply don't have the response time established Gallente groups have. We have the numbers, the pilots, and the SP to fly these high end fleets, but getting them together in a short period of time is something we, and many groups in Caldari, lack.

Templis can pull this kind of stuff off, but that's just one member of the Coalition. A great example is the fact that during our fiasco last night where HECON lost two dreads, Templis was shipped up and heading our way almost immediately. Had the tables turned, it likely would have taken us longer to pull it off. This is something we need to fix for sure but we haven't even been around long enough to get our icon yet. Add in to that dealing with constant diplomatic issues, frequent awoxing, incidents involving our blues (and losses of them), and having to part ways with the largest corporation in the alliance, and you can see why over the last 4 months we've had some stumbling blocks preventing us from hitting this potential sooner.

Time will tell how things go though. Not since years ago has a Coalition truly existed in the Caldari militia. Liandri used to run one, and it gradually got less and less usage as various corps got bored, went to null, Amarr etc. I rebooted the Coalition with new channels and mailing lists and so far it's been a great success. Over time the groups inside have grown to trust each other, work on doctrines together, and make huge strides towards actually turning things around. Things can only get better from here, and I greatly look forward to the future when instead of flying blobs of Kestrels and Cormorants everywhere we can start smashing T2 cruiser and Battleship fleets into the Gallente for some truly epic battles, more often than the once a month at best we see now.

CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate - www.crimsonserpent.com

Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate - www.heiian.com

Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#212 - 2014-06-12 04:42:16 UTC
Confirming you're nobody until you get an alliance icon.
wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#213 - 2014-06-12 05:47:45 UTC  |  Edited by: wilgotna
Subsparx wrote:
brace yourselves for an update from calmil top leadership!!

guys i know we lose almost every single fight when we undock but our corp and alliance leaders all know eachother and have a good time chatting in a joint channel

hecon lost 2 dreads cuz our support fleet was 3 caracals and 2 kestrels, but templis was almost there to get blown up with us, i mean... to help us... so thats good

more good news: we can almost fly doctrines... ill give a tentative eta of 2 years

i have a good feeling about this new coaltion

i think cal mil is finally starting to turn things around!

...if we can only deal with these pesky awoxer trollz


sigh
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#214 - 2014-06-12 06:01:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Luwc
To get back to the topic :

First they debate over the issue.
Then they bring the issue to the Militia Corp Congress where X Gallentius usualy rages a lot. (He is like the space tea party)
After that they have a democratic RL vote where people send in their votes via letters/mail to Loren Gallen or Val Erian
The count of the votes is getting streamed on twitch.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#215 - 2014-06-12 06:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
X G is completely passive and never rages, and while Val Erian has a veto, he never uses it. Other than that, this is an accurate outline of the process.

Loren doesnt need to see the physical votes to count them, or even have access to an eve account. He knows the outcome ahead of time and has a macherial nextdoor to any tackled carrier and an incursus in warp to every novice.
ALUCARD 1208
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#216 - 2014-06-12 06:25:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
Subsparx wrote:
Caldari pilots still hate logi, and it's difficult to get things solidified. We simply don't have the response time established Gallente groups have..


This is the main basis to start from sp-dr in its hey day and even now pride ourselves on our logi backbone its something we ask all new pilots to train to.

Lol i couldnt imagine xg raging hes so calm and has a soothing voice, he should read bedtime storys on tv for a living he would make mad rl cash Big smile
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#217 - 2014-06-12 06:28:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
Subsparx wrote:
Caldari pilots still hate logi, and it's difficult to get things solidified. We simply don't have the response time established Gallente groups have..


This is the main basis to start from sp-dr in its hey day and even now pride ourselves on our logi backbone its something we ask all new pilots to train to.


If they had 4-5 pilots ship into shield logistics they would have not lost 2 dreads, or at least would have had a potiential of 5 dread kills on top of their 2 losses.. Simple fact. While people are unwilling to do so, be unwilling to undock a fleet. Though i have seen caldari fleets with significant logistics.
Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#218 - 2014-06-12 17:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Subsparx
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
Subsparx wrote:
Caldari pilots still hate logi, and it's difficult to get things solidified. We simply don't have the response time established Gallente groups have..


This is the main basis to start from sp-dr in its hey day and even now pride ourselves on our logi backbone its something we ask all new pilots to train to.


If they had 4-5 pilots ship into shield logistics they would have not lost 2 dreads, or at least would have had a potiential of 5 dread kills on top of their 2 losses.. Simple fact. While people are unwilling to do so, be unwilling to undock a fleet. Though i have seen caldari fleets with significant logistics.


It does happen, but in general from what I've seen, with the exception of Templis as mentioned before, is that when running a random general militia fleet, it will take 15-30 more minutes per Logi pilot you request to get formed up and undock. The average pilot in Caldari refuses to fly Logi. This mindset is changing in certain corporations around CalMil but for the most part it's the general way things over here work. As much as I would love to be able to form up a fleet of even 6 Sacileges with 2 Guardians, finding the pilots to do so is incredibly difficult (that time frame I gave is just to get T1 Logi).

X Gallentius wrote:
Confirming you're nobody until you get an alliance icon.


I'm simply commenting on the fact my alliance isn't 6 months old yet, which is no time at all in the grand scheme of things. For the most part the alliance is made up of relatively new corporations and they all have different philosophies on how things should run. It's not the alliance icon specifically that's the issue, it's the fact we are new and are still getting our grounding.

CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate - www.crimsonserpent.com

Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate - www.heiian.com

Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com

Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#219 - 2014-06-12 17:03:54 UTC
Subsparx wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
Subsparx wrote:
Caldari pilots still hate logi, and it's difficult to get things solidified. We simply don't have the response time established Gallente groups have..


This is the main basis to start from sp-dr in its hey day and even now pride ourselves on our logi backbone its something we ask all new pilots to train to.


If they had 4-5 pilots ship into shield logistics they would have not lost 2 dreads, or at least would have had a potiential of 5 dread kills on top of their 2 losses.. Simple fact. While people are unwilling to do so, be unwilling to undock a fleet. Though i have seen caldari fleets with significant logistics.


It does happen, but in general from what I've seen, with the exception of Templis as mentioned before, is that when running a random general militia fleet, it will take 15-30 more minutes per Logi pilot you request to get formed up and undock. The average pilot in Caldari refuses to fly Logi. This mindset is changing in certain corporations around CalMil but for the most part it's the general way things over here work. As much as I would love to be able to form up a fleet of even 6 Sacileges with 2 Guardians, finding the pilots to do so is incredibly difficult (that time frame I gave is just to get T1 Logi).

Weird. Pretty much any GalMil FC worth his salt will fly T2 Logi at the drop of a hat under any other GalMil FC. Kinda hard for your line members to whine when FCs will step up like that when needed.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#220 - 2014-06-12 17:13:01 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Subsparx wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
Subsparx wrote:
Caldari pilots still hate logi, and it's difficult to get things solidified. We simply don't have the response time established Gallente groups have..


This is the main basis to start from sp-dr in its hey day and even now pride ourselves on our logi backbone its something we ask all new pilots to train to.


If they had 4-5 pilots ship into shield logistics they would have not lost 2 dreads, or at least would have had a potiential of 5 dread kills on top of their 2 losses.. Simple fact. While people are unwilling to do so, be unwilling to undock a fleet. Though i have seen caldari fleets with significant logistics.


It does happen, but in general from what I've seen, with the exception of Templis as mentioned before, is that when running a random general militia fleet, it will take 15-30 more minutes per Logi pilot you request to get formed up and undock. The average pilot in Caldari refuses to fly Logi. This mindset is changing in certain corporations around CalMil but for the most part it's the general way things over here work. As much as I would love to be able to form up a fleet of even 6 Sacileges with 2 Guardians, finding the pilots to do so is incredibly difficult (that time frame I gave is just to get T1 Logi).

Weird. Pretty much any GalMil FC worth his salt will fly T2 Logi at the drop of a hat under any other GalMil FC. Kinda hard for your line members to whine when FCs will step up like that when needed.


Interesting. I might have to try that approach. I have Logi 5 but I very rarely if ever fly Logi. In fact, the only time I can remember in the last year that I have was recently when I joined a Templis fleet and flew one of the Ospreys. Leading by example is a good point, expect to see me joining fleets as Logi more often to try and get my alliance inspired to do it themselves.

CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate - www.crimsonserpent.com

Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate - www.heiian.com

Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com