These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Communication Center » EVE General Discussion » Fleet Formations

Topic is locked indefinitely.

Fleet Formations First post
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

Rek Seven

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,269

#21 - 2014-06-12 12:51:23 UTC

Li Quiao wrote:

Dragon Outlaw wrote:

Sadly, there is no "line of sight" concept in Eve.

True, and that does remove one reason for formations.

Quote:

So a formation "feature" for fleet fights would be useless imo.

Not true. There may no line of sight, but different elements of your fleet do want to keep different ranges from various elements of the enemy fleet, and from each other. That's the impetus for wanting a formation in Eve.

Agreed. e-war doesn't rely on line of sight and thus, it would benefit from flying in formation. Optimal rage plays a big part in combat so being able arrange ships to suit their optimal range would have its advantages.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...

Rubishod

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 33

#22 - 2014-06-12 12:59:53 UTC

Let's say you've a line of brawlers you want in front of the rest so they are closer to the action upon warp in. You can't have a ship warp in at less than 0, so now the most forward ship is at 0, and the rest will come in behind that. Can't you warp to at range now?

If you want someone to warp in on a wing I think that'd be too easily abusable as you start hotdropping one brick in the middle of the fight with sniper and ECM blobs that warp in at 95km to the left, right, above, and below of the single bricked FC.

Haven't you read Ender's Game? Any system that would be set up would be promptly abused and exploited.

Ramona McCandless

Silent Vale

LinkNet

Likes received: 7,384

#23 - 2014-06-12 13:05:21 UTC

If you want formation flight, train your guys to do it

Thats how they had to do it in ye olden days when men were men and dreadnoughts were useless massive super-battleships that exploded as soon as a shell went anywhere near them

Simples

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Mattias Uta

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 14

#24 - 2014-06-12 13:06:32 UTC

This thread spurred a thought that i'd like to share;

How about a new order, like orbit and keep at range, that instead makes your ship fly at x distance from target, but fly in the direction that the other ship is flying? Obviously you can achieve something similar already with keep at range/orbit, but in my experience they only work best when the ships in question are different sizes, allowing small fast ships to keep near the larger ones. With this new possibility, ships of the same size will be able to stay close to each other, by maintaining direction as well as velocity with their target. Would be great for fast frigs.

Rek Seven

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,269

#25 - 2014-06-12 13:13:41 UTC | Edited by: Rek Seven

Ramona McCandless wrote:

That's all well and good but we are talking about a game set thousands of years in the future. Formations would be as much a part of space combat as they are ins modern day naval combat. Many processes would be automated and fear of botting abuse shouldn't limit logical expectations.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...

The Horn 9
Tricia Killnu The Horn Likes received: 9	#26 - 2014-06-12 13:46:18 UTC I thought everyone orbits the fleet anchor and shoots the target the FC calls primary. . . Fleet formations wouldnt really help with that would they? Sometimes you just have to realized you undocked and you suck. . .

Doomheim 3,311
flakeys Doomheim Likes received: 3,311	#27 - 2014-06-12 13:48:13 UTC 4 Rek Seven wrote: I remember CCP soundwave saying that he doesn't want to implement them because formation would offer no advantage. If i recall right the exact term was that fleet formations lacked PSSSSSSSHhhhhhhhh ... We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Solecist Project

Likes received: 33,643

#28 - 2014-06-12 14:55:55 UTC | Edited by: Solecist Project

Mattias Uta wrote:

If you're not flying manually,
then you're doing it wrong anyway.

No need for CCP to give pilots with less playerskill help in these regards.

Just learn how to do it right and improve yourself!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Ramona McCandless

Silent Vale

LinkNet

Likes received: 7,384

#29 - 2014-06-12 15:00:13 UTC

Rek Seven wrote:

Formations would be as much a part of space combat as they are ins modern day naval combat.

So...

They wouldnt exist at all or be limited to bombarment, logistics and speedboats with machine guns on them

Oh and Super Carriers lol

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

The Troll Bridge 23,523
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge Likes received: 23,523	#30 - 2014-06-12 15:59:07 UTC 2 In a game where I can shoot artillery through a station, through 10 ships and into someone 100km away, why are formations needed beyond purely aesthetic reasons? *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*

De'Veldrin

Republic University

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,976

#31 - 2014-06-12 16:23:29 UTC

Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:

In a game where I can shoot artillery through a station, through 10 ships and into someone 100km away, why are formations needed beyond purely aesthetic reasons?

Because some people seem to have the misaken idea that this would help them against 256 Napocs all shooting at one ship.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Kijo Rikki

Killboard Padding Services

Likes received: 910

#32 - 2014-06-12 16:24:00 UTC

While it's a nice thought, it's not something that is a big necessity. You can put your snowflakes in their respective squads and have the squad commanders warp at the proper range or if you know where you need to be you can warp yourself. I don't think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, it would be nice for the FC to control every aspect of the fleet but at the end of the day you need pilots who can be autonomous and not require the FC to do it all. When you make it so the FC does everything you make it so you have a growing percentage of the fleet population that doesn't know what to do once the commands stop coming in.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam.

Kitty Bear

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,626

#33 - 2014-06-12 16:31:12 UTC

Rek Seven wrote:

Where do CCP stand on implementing fleet formations into EVE combat?

I remember CCP soundwave saying that he doesn't want to implement them because formation would offer no advantage. I strongly disagree with that statement and feel it would do wonders for fleet combat and move us away from blob warfare and towards more realistic and strategic fights.

So now that soundwave has left CCP, if anyone has any news regarding CCP stance or if you simply have an opinion regarding fleet formation, i would be happy to hear it.

Blob is a formation.

just so you know.

Rin Valador

Professional Amateurs

Likes received: 150

#34 - 2014-06-12 16:34:28 UTC

Until there is line of site firing there will be no need for formations other than "DPS blob here, Logi blob 50KM behind the DPS blob"

I can imagine how much fun and headache it would be to keep your ship out of the firing line of your own fleet mates guns...

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10

Perkone Caldari State 385
SFM Hobb3s Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 385	#35 - 2014-06-12 16:36:21 UTC The problem is, fleet formations are entirely useless. To make them at all useful, you'd have to change the entire dynamic of how fleet fighting occurs (ie no more Fleet A all shooting at one ship at a time). I've thought out some ideas how to pull this off, and I might post it in my own thread but I'm sure the community would be very polarized.

The Black Redemption 819
Yarda Black The Black Redemption Likes received: 819	#36 - 2014-06-12 16:36:25 UTC Getting out of that ball of ships into... formation is as much part of the battle as the rest. Just like avoiding warping in like that can be.

Herzog Wolfhammer

Sigma Special Tactics Group

Likes received: 8,697

#37 - 2014-06-12 18:17:59 UTC | Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer

Rek Seven wrote:

This is a topic that surfaces a couple of times a year. Some players want it, some could care less. I suppose if more AOE weaponry was in use beyond bombs (which are not so damaging to large ships with good logistics) formations would be more relevant. Unless I was up against goons who I hear have some good SB tactics in large engagements.

It is kind of a buzz kill to hear of great fleet battles in nullsec and then you see the video of it and it's a clusterball of ships in a fireworks display. But that's just the way it is.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Galen Darksmith

Sky Fighters

Rote Kapelle

Likes received: 321

#38 - 2014-06-12 18:43:55 UTC | Edited by: Galen Darksmith

Eurydia Vespasian wrote:

i like the idea of warp in formations. frigs and close range brawling tanks land in the front, missile boats and mid range craft in the middle...logi and snipes in the back. what's not to like?

Why are all of these dropping out at the same range? The difference between ships in a warp bubble is measured in meters, which is piddling. If you want ships to arrive at difference ranges in terms of kilometers, that's what squads and wings are for.

If you allowed fleet ships to keep their respective distances when warping off (aka custom formations), say hello to the grid-covering sphere of tackly interceptor doom. Enjoy never being able to kite ever again.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler

Jake Maverick

X11 Assault and Recon

Likes received: 81

#39 - 2014-06-12 19:03:12 UTC

Li Quiao wrote:

Dragon Outlaw wrote:

Sadly, there is no "line of sight" concept in Eve.

True, and that does remove one reason for formations.

Quote:

So a formation "feature" for fleet fights would be useless imo.

IDK how many fleet fights you all have been in, but generally, in skirmishes with varying ship sizes you warp the tackle in first at close range, the DPS in at 0 or slightly at range and then the logi, snipers, caps etc, X KM away based on size and roll.

hmmmm sounds like the "formation" you all keep describing, to me >_>

If you really wanted all that to happen at once, or maintain it on the field you use a long standing fleet concept called anchor ships where everyone in the group of a certain ship type orbits their designated anchor ship and the anchor ship keeps that set of ships in position.

Also sounds like a "formation" on the battlefield to me.

But hey what do I know?

Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2,368
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire Likes received: 2,368	#40 - 2014-06-12 19:58:31 UTC Ships in formation would make for nice screenshots and videos, making blob fights at least slightly interesting. +1 to idea. ~ Professional Forum Alt ~