These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Lazors!
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Subject 4927
Unsteady
Triumvirate.
#21 - 2014-06-12 02:11:55 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Subject 4927 wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Malkovich.

Smartbombs!



*sigh*
Hey, another awoxer! :D


What's that?

http://subjectandfriends.wordpress.com
Solecist Project
#22 - 2014-06-12 02:12:23 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Amenity Project wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
SMARTBOMBS!

Why would they buy new ones,
when they can simply repair the old ones at less cost than buying new ones?


Your whole argument works only because you believe people will repair old ones.


Except I'm not making an argument, I'm thinking out loud. Allow me to repeat myself again - I like blasters, and don't care one way or the other. We call it curiosity.
You are not answering the question.

The question, which questions your question.


You want people to be able to repair their crystals.

I tell you that this would lead to people not buying crystals anymore.

You can argue that they still will, but it will be a drop in the bucket compared to now.



Tell me ... why would you think people will not rather repair them cheaper, than buying new ones?


Of course they would do that!


And the prices of crystals would drop rock bottom.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-06-12 02:31:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Solecist Project wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Amenity Project wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
SMARTBOMBS!

Why would they buy new ones,
when they can simply repair the old ones at less cost than buying new ones?


Your whole argument works only because you believe people will repair old ones.


Except I'm not making an argument, I'm thinking out loud. Allow me to repeat myself again - I like blasters, and don't care one way or the other. We call it curiosity.
You are not answering the question.

The question, which questions your question.


You want people to be able to repair their crystals.

I tell you that this would lead to people not buying crystals anymore.

You can argue that they still will, but it will be a drop in the bucket compared to now.



Tell me ... why would you think people will not rather repair them cheaper, than buying new ones?


Of course they would do that!


And the prices of crystals would drop rock bottom.


Okay, well, let me reiterate. 1. I was looking for an answer to a question, not an unhelpful question of my question, which I prepared carefully, stating clearly that I am already aware of a potential effect on the market, so repeating things I've already said is just redundant, 2. I don't want crystals to be repairable, I asked why they're not. There is a distinction here, and I stated quite clearly that I don't care one way or the other; 3. I already said I KNOW that people would be buying crystals less. What difference that would make to the market is unknown given that people are buying new ships all the time, to just assert it to be a drop in the ocean is not a quantifiable assertion, it is a guess, and it is as good a guess as mine when I suggest player-driven station repair services to replace NPC ones might offset it, and 4) why can't players decide how much they'll cost to repair if there are player-driven station repair services? And on that note, if they are NPC services, why can't CCP set the price for repairing valuable crystals high?

So, most of what you just said, I addressed above in no uncertain terms, but now I've also answered your fourth question, and I'm essentially repeating myself again so, if you ask questions that I've already answered again I may just have to report the post for trolling.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#24 - 2014-06-12 03:13:00 UTC
Years ago they used to be repairable. Really annoyed me when I found out they werent anymore too.

But I have no idea why they changed it just best guess is so youd consume more and drive more markets. Another annoy consequence is the odd idiot trying to sell them in jita through contracts or non repackagable free crystals stacking up in ur hangar over time.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-06-12 03:15:35 UTC
Well I'd be curious in finding out why it was changed to non-repairable, other than the obvious market implications if there are other reasons. It's not like it's broken or anything, it doesn't seem to be, I'm just curious really.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-06-12 03:24:41 UTC
The only reason i would want them repairable.. is so I can put the crystals i have looted off wreaks to be put back on the market
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-06-12 03:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Dominus Tempus wrote:
Because the damage taken is effectively their 'ammo.'

Mining crystals can't be repaired either, last I checked.

Crystals can't be repaired, but I believe that mining crystals can be reprocessed but lazor crystals cannot be. Maybe because you can't overheat mining lasers?

**Edit: and I meant "can't".

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#28 - 2014-06-12 05:59:20 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:


Why?

What's wrong with them being depletable?

Why add another layer of complexity to a thing as simple as ammo?

It's ammo - you use it to shoot guns and it depletes over time. There shouldn't be much philosophy involved in the process. Straight

Because the current system is more complex, because unlike other ammo, you can't stack damaged crystals. So you end up with loads of partly damaged crystals lying around taking up awkward inv space in the list. While your faction antimatter stacks with itself all nice & tidy.

Repairing on it's own would however kill the crystal market, people are quite right.

So the simplest solution seen on this oft discussed topic is to allow 'Recutting' which is a stacking which can only be done in stations/pos Or heck, it 'could' be possible inside a ship cargo hold even.
Which takes your 4 25% crystals and makes a single 100% crystal out of them. This avoids 'creating' materials out of thin air, or bypassing manufacturing by keeping the overall crystal percentage intact but as 100% crystals can be stacked this means you won't end up with large numbers of partial crystals.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-06-12 06:19:36 UTC
Simplest answer .... CCP are gradually trying to remove the differences between factions and make faction differences more a cosmetic thing in the name of "balance" and for Ammar T2 crystals are the equivalent of other factions ammo.
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#30 - 2014-06-12 06:34:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rumtin
I don't think they should be repairable. Not everything is fixed by just putting a band-aid on it. But they should allow them to still stack even with dmg.

As for players owning repair services, you want that, then go to null sec and conquer a station giving people the right to dock and set the repair price to whatever you like.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-06-12 07:44:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
I agree we don't want to tank the crystal market, but I can't be the only person who is frustrated by the growing mountain of slightly-damaged crystals collecting in my cargo bay from old doctrines that I have long-since sold the ships off in components, but cant sell the crystals (and since they don't stack, 9/10th of the objects in my ammo can is single damaged crystals)..

Maybe, rather than strictly "repairing" crystals, you could drag two identical crystals on top of each other, to "replenish" one crystal from the other (leaving you with one perfect, and one that now carries the damage of both "old" crystals) [RP explanation required!]. At least, that way, there wouldn't be quite so many annoying damaged crystals lying around, and there would still be a ned to buy more crystals.

EDIT - Oops, didn't notice Nevyn said pretty-much the same thing
Solecist Project
#32 - 2014-06-12 08:03:22 UTC
You could as well use them up or trash them, btw.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dairy Product
Freerange Fedo Milks and Yogurts
#33 - 2014-06-12 08:21:48 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I never said anything about them not being depletable. Check this out, if I have 500 shots left on a crystal, and I repair it so it has 1000 shots left, how is that different from having 500 rounds of antimatter and buying 500 more, apart from the fact that I'm not spending money on the market? This is why I brought up player-driven station repair services.

This is the whole problem.

CCP would have to create some sort of interface to "repair crystals" and crystals only. Then they'd have to balance the costs, the materials that go into repairing crystals, etc. Not to mention some people would simply bypass all of that crap and buy new ones anyways.

So you're making a new feature for a fraction of a fraction of eve players all just to basically alleviate the problem of having "wasted" crystals that you can't sell back on the market.

Also if the ingredients to repair the crystals were already materials that exist in the game, then the crystal market could end up being affected by other events in game, meaning there'd be a potential danger of it "crashing" causing prices to wax and wane with however profitable the repair is with respect to the cost of materials for making new crystals.

tl;dr - it adds way too much complexity for the maximum benefit it could possibly provide.
Erin Crawford
#34 - 2014-06-12 08:26:44 UTC
while we're on the topic of lasers and crystals:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4055632#post4055632
Blink

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#35 - 2014-06-12 08:26:48 UTC
I agree with used crystals not stacking be annoying. Its great to have a wide choice in attributes after you accepted the limitation of EM/Thermal. But that cargohold....

I think they made faction/t2 unrepairable to assist the market. When you run out of ammo, you buy it from a player. For normal crystals you only have to do that once.
But t2 and faction are more pricy. Theres money to be made. Unless they never break. Then all you got is 1-time costumers.

Never read a blog about tho.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-06-12 08:29:33 UTC
Dairy Product wrote:


tl;dr - it adds way too much complexity for the maximum benefit it could possibly provide.



This was one of my guesses, I just wasn't sure. I imagine, if they used to be repairable though, as was stated above, it couldn't be that complex to change it back. Cheers for the sensible answer, though.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Amenity Project
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2014-06-12 08:56:49 UTC
Erin Crawford wrote:
while we're on the topic of lasers and crystals:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4055632#post4055632
Blink

Your thread is closed, but there's no reason given.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-06-12 09:00:05 UTC
Amenity Project wrote:
Erin Crawford wrote:
while we're on the topic of lasers and crystals:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4055632#post4055632
Blink

Your thread is closed, but there's no reason given.


Sometimes they close automatically due to inactivity.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Erin Crawford
#39 - 2014-06-12 09:16:53 UTC
You're right! i didn't see that. Thanks.
I might have to start a new thread.

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "
Amenity Project
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-06-12 09:22:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Amenity Project
Erin Crawford wrote:
You're right! i didn't see that. Thanks.
I might have to start a new thread.
Ah yes, the thread is locked for 90 days of inactivity.

You can petition to have it reopened.