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[Crius] Manufacturing and general UI feedback

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ElectronHerd Askulf
Aridia Logistical Misdirection
#81 - 2014-06-12 01:32:56 UTC
In 'Team Chartering' mode, is there a way to filter for teams you've already bid on?

Will there be functionality to pay for team bids from corp funds?
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#82 - 2014-06-12 02:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarsas Phage
A few UI nits:

1) in the English client, the words "Outcome" and "Output" (ie, "Output Location") are used interchangeably. I suggest using the same word consistently, in other words, replace Outcome with Output.

2) The Job Duration timer is unintuitive. It took me a few moments to figure out it was in MM:DD:HH:SS format, and even afterwords it's just a jumble of numbers that you need to stop and mentally separate versus just parsing it at a glance. I suggest looking into displaying this as "01M 03d 22h 45m 55s" , similar to the Skill Queue countdown timer.

3) Since there still appears to be a time duration limit of ~30 days on jobs, I suggest that the Job Duration clock's numbers turn red and stay that way until the user dials in a job whose length is under the limit rather than finding out that you hit the length limit only after you set everything up and hit Start. The Job Duration timer's tooltip information should reflect this state in detail, and suggest the user reduce runs or research amount to get it under the set limit.

I would also grey out the Start button, since, like lack of skills or sufficient input materials, a job length that would surpass the allowed time limit would prevent the job from successfully starting. A side effect of doing this is that you would eliminate the current modal dialog window which pops up in such a circumstance.

4) The little "skills required" widget at the bottom-center is nice, but it's visually framed in such way that it's implied that it has an active function associated with it. I spent a little time clicking on it to see if it did anything before finally realizing that it's purely informational.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#83 - 2014-06-12 02:48:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Did a little testing with the UI and manufacturing in general.

In general, I like the new layout but (and I really don't want to sound like a jerk here...) it seems like all you did was reorder everything that already exists. Some stuff is new, but mostly it's just a moved feature. Anywho, here are a few things I noticed that I would like to see changed/fixed.


  • Showing all the BPs and their locations is great (viewing cans is nice) but I would REALLY like the ability to do a search based on the selections made. The filter is fine, but if I know what I want to build, can't I just type it in and see it for all locations?
  • The Filter on the BP list is ok, but it's the basic one from the old industry UI. Can we get something like what is in the inventory window? It seems like that shouldn't be too far of a stretch. I really would like the option of selecting my own defined filters.
  • The Use Blueprint, when selected outside of the industry window and when the industry window is open, doesn't focus the industry window to the 'used' blueprint.
  • Use Blueprint is nice, but I thought there was some discussion about allowing a 'Use Blueprint - Max Runs' option? T2 blueprint copies are usually run for max runs (think modules, ammo) and this would reduce unnecessary clicking.
  • For Facilities - Corp owned facilities seems to show any facility that I might have positive standings with., but those aren't corp. They aren't even alliance. Can we get more options here? Perhaps the fleet window is a place to look? Show stations based on standings could be an option. Also, maybe corp and alliance? What about an option for 'POS Facilities'?
  • Jobs - It seems we lost the Owned by Corp, started by Me option. I don't want to typically see all my corp mates' jobs. Also there is no way to refresh the list? I'd rather this be a button refresh since some corps have hundreds of jobs running and an immediate load would lag the client until it loads.
  • Manufacturing vs. Research - Why can I manufacture with a blueprint in a can and materials in the hanger but I can't do time research on the same blueprint in the can? It states - Cannot use this blueprint from it's current location. Same with copying.
  • Copy times are still crazy long for some items - was this changed yet?
  • Clicking on a facility doesn't bring up any text in the information window for the facility.
  • Moved a bpo from a can to the item hanger and the Blueprints list did not update with the change of location - the moved bpo was not visible from the blueprints list when selecting the itme hanger.
  • Refining UI - the icons and text are too small. I can barely read anything. Can this scale with size of window? Also, just showing the base numbers is not helpful. The old system you can see how much you are losing and...if you have your implant in! I shouldn't have to hover over all of them to see the differences. Can we get a better list with the icons?
  • Reprocessing - Why do you allow the option to reprocess a blueprint? It gives a little red crossed out circle, but why bother? Can you remove this as an option if it's unnecessary? This was same type of thing that cluttered up the old UI.


Still getting this error, as reported before as well. Blueprint is in a can, but says I have all the materials to build it. Also tried in item hanger and still doesn't work.

Quote:
Unable to install job due to the following reasons:
Insufficient funds to pay job cost
Cannot use this blueprint from its current location
The job cost has changed
Error.ACCOUNT_FUNDS (0.0, 32885)
Error.INVALID_BLUEPRINT_LOCATION (,)
Error.MISMATCH_COST (28578, 32885)


That's all I have for now.

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Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#84 - 2014-06-12 02:51:26 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
A few UI nits:

1) in the English client, the words "Outcome" and "Output" (ie, "Output Location") are used interchangeably. I suggest using the same word consistently, in other words, replace Outcome with Output.

2) The Job Duration timer is unintuitive. It took me a few moments to figure out it was in MM:DD:HH:SS format, and even afterwords it's just a jumble of numbers that you need to stop and mentally separate versus just parsing it at a glance. I suggest looking into displaying this as "01M 03d 22h 45m 55s" , similar to the Skill Queue countdown timer.

3) Since there still appears to be a time duration limit of ~30 days on jobs, I suggest that the Job Duration clock's numbers turn red and stay that way until the user dials in a job whose length is under the limit rather than finding out that you hit the length limit only after you set everything up and hit Start. The Job Duration timer's tooltip information should reflect this state in detail, and suggest the user reduce runs or research amount to get it under the set limit.

I would also grey out the Start button, since, like lack of skills or sufficient input materials, a job length that would surpass the allowed time limit would prevent the job from successfully starting. A side effect of doing this is that you would eliminate the current modal dialog window which pops up in such a circumstance.

4) The little "skills required" widget at the bottom-center is nice, but it's visually framed in such way that it's implied that it has an active function associated with it. I spent a little time clicking on it to see if it did anything before finally realizing that it's purely informational.

Great feedback. I agree with all. The job duration is really confusing.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#85 - 2014-06-12 06:42:06 UTC
The skill tool tip obscures the run input box in the new window. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue because TTs disappear as soon as your mouse courser leaves the TT-origin, but this TT, among a couple others in the new indu window allows interaction and thus stays put. This requires yet another mouse movement to make it disappear. Inconvenient.™

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
shaun 27
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2014-06-12 07:32:41 UTC
Not sure if someone has mentioned this but when i press use blueprint option(blueprint in design lab) The industry tab doesn't load up ie ui, I have to manually click the industry tab on the left to open it up. Is this intended because id love it to open the industry tab when i select use blueprint option on blueprint and not manually click on the industry tab on left side.


shaun
Qoi
Exert Force
#87 - 2014-06-12 08:00:55 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Question for people who find the blueprint list too inclusive (large as a result), are the filters at the top insufficient? We are exploring ways of filtering down to BPCs vs BPOs, but currently you could filter down to blueprints within a specific container or location quite easily.

I didn't see before that you could filter down to individual containers, that is indeed extremely helpful. I can't see the container names in the drop down though?

Having two additional drop down menus, one for the groupName and one for the typeName (the typeName one only becomes active when you selected a blueprint group) would be very much appreciated!

http://eve-industry.org
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#88 - 2014-06-12 08:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
shaun 27 wrote:
Not sure if someone has mentioned this but when i press use blueprint option(blueprint in design lab) The industry tab doesn't load up ie ui, I have to manually click the industry tab on the left to open it up. Is this intended because id love it to open the industry tab when i select use blueprint option on blueprint and not manually click on the industry tab on left side.


shaun


Same happens to me with station facilities. Sometimes the indu window opens when I use right click -> Use Blueprint, sometimes it doesn't. When it does not, I get a strange series of sounds (creeking-baoom or creeking-pling-zoosh) at the first try with a BP, but no feedback at all for subsequent attempts.

Also, sometimes the Indu Window icon in the task bar opens the window with 1 click (as it is supposed to), sometimes I need a double click.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Jaden Soniel
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-06-12 09:40:01 UTC
Hello,

So, after my account got reactivated i got a chance to try out the S&I changes. I do S&I every day in TQ so i was very excited to take a look at it in SISI.

Overall i'm satisfied by the changes. There are bugs and glitches at the moment ofcourse, but what works, those seems to be good. I only do copy, invention, and manufacturing in a starbase though, so my opinions are only related to those changes. I have to finish some copiing and invention, before i can comment on the changes related to the copiing, invention, and manufacture times, but for now they look promising as well.

I do have an idea about the new industry UI. Almost half of the indy window are taken up by the blueprint information. At first i liked the look of it, since it's been done well. It's pleasing to the eye, plus it shows a lot of information that i could find usefull when studiing the bps. But when i'm done with that, i'm more interested about the lower half of the indy window, since thats what i will interact the most during my day to day industry activities. Therefore my idea is that there could be implemented something similar than the compact mode of the inventory windows. Pictures sometimes worth a hundred words, so i made a picture to illustrate my idea.

http://i.imgur.com/RTbVRPe.png?1

So after pressing the little icon on the top, the window would start to shrink to the state that is on the right side of the picture. I would love to hear what the people, who work on this in the dev team, think about this.


Thanks,
Jaden Soniel
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#90 - 2014-06-12 10:55:29 UTC
When you want to produce things, you can enter a number of runs below the used blue prints. Aptly, the text box title is "Job Runs". However, when you want to research a blueprint the title stays the same, even though above it is stated as "Levels remaining".

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Drak d'Amral
Necrotic Dancer Cartel
#91 - 2014-06-12 15:43:31 UTC
could you make it possible that i can select 10 blueprints and produce/invent/copy all of then in one click?


so what i mean is, i have tons of BPC in my hangar, and i need to start every day a lot of invention (10 per char), so it would be very nice, if can select 10 bpc, and install 10 jobs at the same time ( so 10 times the same sort of job) it would be less klicking and more time for fun


thx
Neroo Tal
Order of the Golden Dawn
#92 - 2014-06-12 15:43:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Neroo Tal
Just a request can you make the time say "d hh:mm:ss" instead of just "dd:mm:ss" So if I have a job taking 1:23:45:55 It would just appear as 1d 23:45:55 It's subtle but I think it'll improve readability

Edit: Also when doing ME research, would it be possible to show the actual change being made on the materials required to build as you look at doing 1-10 research so people can decide where 'perfect' is if not at 10. Same with TE just the time value per run
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#93 - 2014-06-12 16:45:04 UTC
Multiple Mus wrote:
When searching for BPO/BPCs using the drop down menu for facility it wont show BPO/BPCs in a POS anchored Corp Hanger, is this intentional?


Are you sure the filter was set to "owner by my corporation" under the blueprint tab?
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#94 - 2014-06-12 17:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Selaria Unbertable
Just build a POS in my home system to see how it all works together. I have onlined 2 manufacturing arrays and two labs, one hyasyoda and one design lab. The latter does not show up in the facility list unless I put some bpcs (or something at all) into it.

Also, the reprocessing and compression arrays cannot be used unless 3.000m close to them. Didn't you want to change this? I can access their storage, but neither compress nor reprocess while out of range. Kind of annoying.

All in all, I'm quite satisfied with the changes so far. Praise the UI designer, or at least let them out of their dark cellars for a couple of hours Twisted

PS: The UI does not remember input/output locations for post arrays, propably for offices neither. It would be nice to at least have a setting to allow this, for I use the same corp hangar divisions for materials/outputs all the time. And setting those up again and again is against your goal to reduce the amount of unnecessary clicking, am I right Blink
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#95 - 2014-06-12 17:48:28 UTC
How about it only show BPs out to your trained Scientific Networking skill so you won't see BPs that you can reach?

Also maybe add some kind of highlighting if you are in the same station.
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#96 - 2014-06-12 18:10:41 UTC
Also, currently the S&I window does not grey out activities not provided by either station or POS array. Meaning I can try to start a copy/ME/TE job in an assembly array, which of course generates an error.
Qoi
Exert Force
#97 - 2014-06-12 18:35:59 UTC
Please allow me to see how many Science jobs i have remaining at the same time as showing me how many Manufacturing jobs i have remaining in the industry window and please display that information all the time and not just when a blueprint is selected. :-)

In the Show Info window the Material Efficiency level is shown first and then the Time Efficiency Level, in the industry window it is reversed.

It is not obvious how the activity selection buttons affect what is shown in the teams tab. When i select certain activities, the teams tab is empty, sometimes it is not.

When bidding on a team, i have to press enter to get suggestions for the system name, that is very unintuitive.

When bidding on a team, the mouse wheel changes the bid by 1 ISK, a step of 10,000 ISK sounds more reasonable given that the minimum bids are in the 100k range. Otherwise my mouse wheel will be broken before i reach the target ISK amount!

Please change the sign in front of the TE/ME modifiers, it is -10% material usage, not +10% :)

The top part of the industry window is crazy big, please add a compact mode so that you can use it comfortably on the minimum system requirements (1024x768 ), or even look at other things while having the industry window open! *gasp*

I have no idea what that thing in the industry window is that is around my Required Skills but it scares me.

The "Stop" button on the jobs tab should look much more dangerous, some evil red colour maybe. And the start button has the same colour as the deliver button, maybe make it green?

The "next" arrow on the top right corner of the industry window doesn't work.

Thanks for bringing the old Neocom icons back, they are so much nicer Big smile

http://eve-industry.org
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#98 - 2014-06-12 18:46:41 UTC
Is the Ark, and possibly the other JF, supposed to have the normal cap parts as materials for construction plus the actual Providence as Extra Materials?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
DissentersWillAbhor
Felix Legions
#99 - 2014-06-12 19:20:46 UTC
Personally, I would lke the BPO/BPC list to be on the right or left of the (too) large interface so that we can see more than 10 BPO/BPCs at once? Also, could you implement mutli-select for delivery? I really don't want to have to click twenty times with the "new optimized" system when the "old clickfest" of a system had deliveries in 2 clicks and a ctrl+A.
peroxide chase
Os Group
#100 - 2014-06-12 20:09:10 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Is the Ark, and possibly the other JF, supposed to have the normal cap parts as materials for construction plus the actual Providence as Extra Materials?


in todays patch they added many new material requirements to t2 BP's (i tested with BPO's) See my post here for a SS example, its across the board with all items except ammo it seems, build requirements are still ~35% higher than TQ as well.