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data sites/hacking
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Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2014-06-11 18:07:22 UTC
Hey guys, before the loot spew, I used to make over 500m/site. After loot spew, I made about...300-400 per site. Now that loot spew is gone, I make about 500m/site. What am I doing wrong?

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#42 - 2014-06-11 18:07:24 UTC
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
a lot of the fiscal viability of the profession is going to be tied-up with whatever happens to decryptors in Crius.


I like what you've done with your hair

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#43 - 2014-06-11 18:12:47 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
a lot of the fiscal viability of the profession is going to be tied-up with whatever happens to decryptors in Crius.


I like what you've done with your hair

Thanks! The first post-loot spew container I hacked netted me enough for a blow out and bob.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#44 - 2014-06-11 18:16:27 UTC
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
blow out and bob.


It would be remiss of me not to say

Oo-er

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Prof Anarchia
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-06-11 18:39:06 UTC
Saraki Ishikela wrote:
There is a lot that can be done to improve the exploration profession. I think they should have a way to escalate like their combat site counter parts. Intercept some communication data, gives you a journal update and you're off on a quest. Naturally escalations should be harder. More difficult hacking, perhaps some defenses. The escalation could even be for a combat site to mix professions up.

Overall I think the pay out on these sites needs to be increased. There are risks involved, and a lot of time. I never feel quite as vulnerable than when i have that mini game up.

But I think escalations would be a great way to up the difficulty so "just anyone in a ship with a probe launcher" can't do them and give the people who specialized a little reward for their investment.

On a whole other lever there are some interesting pvp applications that could be explored. I'm just spit balling here but some creative ideas that come to mind are Maybe hack a stargate and delay jumps for a minute. To prevent reinforcements, or escape. Maybe hack the gate guns to work in your sides favor. Hack POS defenses, or access the fuel and stront cargo area so you can see how long it will reinforce for etc. Maybe hack a ship in pvp to disable a module. Can you imagine exploring getting jumped and quickly having to hack the ships warp disruptor to shut it down and escape. That would be the most intense mini game ever lol. I would also love to hack a wreck and see the kill mail from the ships black box lol.


just to say I love all your suggestions. Let's petition! :)
Prof Anarchia
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-06-11 18:47:58 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Last month I spent 2 weeks out in nulsec running exploration content. I did this very casually, appx 12 hours total work. I made 3B isk in loot. Then took the nearest connecting wormhole back to empire.

If you are so bad at exploration that you can't make enough isk to satisfy yourself, you really should just leave it to your betters.


I think you missed the point.

I too can net the amount you are talking about - with relic sites, as said.

What I am suggesting is that hacking should be a viable nullsec career. I mean, why on earth shouldn't it? If it's so good why do so many do a halfscan see that the system is full of data sites and leave them? Sometimes I can fly back and forth through a system and over a period of a few hours the data sigs are still there. Why? Because they are not worth doing.

And why is it, I ask, that when somebody raises concerns about a specific aspect of the game, hoping by discussion the game can be improved, notjust for me, but for everybody, that some people have to come along with the worn-out comment - "if you're so bad at it..." How can you be bad at hacking? lol
Prof Anarchia
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-06-11 18:49:34 UTC
Jiris Yusef wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
[quote=Ramona McCandless]Cool

More for the rest of them

And /thread.




I think you're forgetting the point the OP is trying to make, data site loots are crap and should be on par with relic sites. And that the loot from relic sites isn't even as good anymore since the last patch.

I know you want to sound all smart and teach about the Market and the economy, but really you just sound condescending (a ****).


like it! Well said!
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-06-11 18:51:37 UTC
Jiris Yusef wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Cool

More for the rest of them

And /thread.


OP, please take a moment to realize that the value of any in-game item - including data site loot - is determined by this very cool feature called 'The Market'.

If the average data site loot market value is indeed as crappy as you say, it means that either there are far too many people that are running the sites or that very few people give a damn about the stuff you find.

Remember, it's other players that give you ISK for your exploration efforts, not CCP (NPCs).

Why should players pay you more if they don't need the stuff you find?


I think you're forgetting the point the OP is trying to make, data site loots are crap and should be on par with relic sites. And that the loot from relic sites isn't even as good anymore since the last patch.

I know you want to sound all smart and teach about the Market and the economy, but really you just sound condescending (a ****).
It's really not my fault if neither you nor the OP know what you're talking about.

Increasing loot quantities would just have the effect of reducing prices. It will not get you more ISK. Simple as that.


There are exactly two reasons why you think you're making less ISK after Kronos:

1) more people are doing data/relic sites now that CCP got rid of the loot spew, and they're doing them faster

2) some confirmation bias, since it's human nature to be worried about one's 'EVE profession' to be worth less after a patch


Want more ISK? Be patient and wait for the 'after-patch' explorers to get bored.

The only thing CCP could do to make data sites worth more is to require more than one datacore, decryptor, etc. for invention, which wouldn't be a good idea imo. In any case, the more ISK you would get would come from the rest of the playerbase. Why should we all pay more for T2 gear just to make you whiny explorers happy?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#49 - 2014-06-11 18:54:11 UTC
Further, Data Sites can be disappointing compared to Relic Sites because

1) They drop more BPCs and that's :effort:

2) Their loot takes up less space and so more of them can be done before emptying

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#50 - 2014-06-11 19:22:33 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:
Hey guys, before the loot spew, I used to make over 500m/site. After loot spew, I made about...300-400 per site. Now that loot spew is gone, I make about 500m/site. What am I doing wrong?


Looks about right. So, nothing? Or is this a trick question?
Samantha Calderon
Heavenly Forge
#51 - 2014-06-12 01:29:55 UTC
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
I've found empty, unhacked containers in fresh sites. They do exist. But I am still not that concerned about the current state of exploration. Personally, I think it would be best if they reduced the spawn rate of sites and eliminated cargo scanning cans (and/or forced despawn of empty grid sites after a hacking attempt has been made). But a lot of the fiscal viability of the profession is going to be tied-up with whatever happens to decryptors in Crius.



Before Kronos you found one untouched empty container from time to time. Now is far more comon to find empty unhacked containers.

Wherever I May Roam: Blog sobre EVE Online en castellano!
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#52 - 2014-06-12 01:38:44 UTC
Prof Anarchia wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
Hacking went to hell when they removed the rats from the sites, when it took more than any old ship with a probe launcher on it to get the stuff out of sites.

CCP tried to use loot spew to get people to work together to do exploration. The rats in the sites did more for teamwork than loot spew. Used to do exploration with friends when there were rats in the sites, especially out in 0.0. Now you don't need any teamwork whatsoever to explore, making it much easier for anyone to do it. That's what has driven the prices down so much, why there are so few worthwhile sites left for everyone.

They should also make exploration site containers non-scannable so people cannot take only the good stuff, and leave the junk for everyone else. Also find that annoying, take the time to find a site, get there, and see someone has already looted the good stuff.



I see your point...but I must admit I lkie the fact that exploration is a good all round solo enterprise. Personally, I prefer working alone.
All I ask is that data loot be reexamined and for the sites to be vastly more diverse. And for it to tie in with lore. Hmm, maybe I am asking alot....

But...isk to get a ship to get isk to get a ship to get isk...etc etc etc....should be more than this.

Well that's pretty much the mindset of new exploration. It was fun, now it's less so and more about the loot. The exploration was removed from exploration. And yes a lot of explorers are no longer around, no more deep discussions about exploration any longer, the fun of it, it's not deep any longer, the only discussions are about whining over loot, all it could ever be. Those players they were replaced by new players many of them.

And no you could do those old sites solo if you wanted, you just needed more skills for the harder ones. Combat oriented T3 explorer fits were all the rage, but only an option and not required. But it was easier to do it with other people, a lot of people did, but certainly not a requirement.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-06-12 01:43:49 UTC
Prof Anarchia wrote:

I've just run a site - total value 1.5mill!!!!!!! 1.5mill when you risk pirates, plus the time it takes to find/run the sites.


A few months and one site, and you're an expert. Oh please, Lord and Master of all Hacking Knowledge, how can I be more like you?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-06-12 01:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
I will say one thing. I ran a few sites in lowsec yesterday, three of them I think, two relics and a data. I scored almost half a billion worth of stuff. There was no risk to it. None.

They way exploration is right now, if it's going to be risk free, then yes, loot needs to be very cheap. Or, there need to be rats, deadly ones.

As it is, it's too easy to go in in a cloaky helios, cloak up when someone else is in local, and get back to work when they leave.

That is all.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#55 - 2014-06-12 01:47:37 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Prof Anarchia wrote:

I've just run a site - total value 1.5mill!!!!!!! 1.5mill when you risk pirates, plus the time it takes to find/run the sites.


A few months and one site, and you're an expert. Oh please, Lord and Master of all Hacking Knowledge, how can I be more like you?

Remiel, post 4 adds some additional relevant information.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#56 - 2014-06-12 01:50:09 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Prof Anarchia wrote:

I've just run a site - total value 1.5mill!!!!!!! 1.5mill when you risk pirates, plus the time it takes to find/run the sites.


A few months and one site, and you're an expert. Oh please, Lord and Master of all Hacking Knowledge, how can I be more like you?

Remiel, post 4 adds some additional relevant information.


Lol OMG hardcore lies and a "promise" of vandalism

Nice

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Amenity Project
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-06-12 01:52:13 UTC
Prof Anarchia wrote:
Over the last few months I've run hundreds of sites. the one I quoted was my most recent - I usually leave data sites now (for said reasons) but not having much time I gave it a go. 1.5mill. A joke.
on average i would say data sites bring in about 5-15mill - filling half your cargo hold.
Relic sites 30-50mill, some at 100 mill (rare I acknowledge).

With relics you can hold over a billion worth of loot - more than worth the risk.
Data - about 250mill - they just aren't worth doing.

Like many explorers before me - as discussed on forums/in person - I've decided to ignore them and remove my data module.

Either that or I will become a saboteur and purposely destroy all data sites until they are improved.

How are 250 Million ISK not worth doing?


How about using a cheap ship ??
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-06-12 01:53:31 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Prof Anarchia wrote:

I've just run a site - total value 1.5mill!!!!!!! 1.5mill when you risk pirates, plus the time it takes to find/run the sites.


A few months and one site, and you're an expert. Oh please, Lord and Master of all Hacking Knowledge, how can I be more like you?

Remiel, post 4 adds some additional relevant information.


Lol OMG hardcore lies and a "promise" of vandalism

Nice


Yeah, I just read post four. I stand by my original sarcasm.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2014-06-12 08:06:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Brainless Bimbo
Prof Anarchia wrote:
Please improve data site loot/the hacking profession, or dispense with it altogther. In its current state null hacking is a complete waste of time.

When I first subscribed a few months ago hacking was my chosen profession. It isn't what I thought it would be.

I've just run a site - total value 1.5mill!!!!!!! 1.5mill when you risk pirates, plus the time it takes to find/run the sites.

then there's the weight of the loot - a covops doesn't have a big enough cargo to carry the stuff data cans drop. What are you supposed to do? Hack and fill cargo and then transport your 2million isk worth of goods through gate camps and bubbles to jita to sell? A joke.

Surely data sites should be worth 50mill +, then it would make them worthwhile.


Firstly exploration has been around for many many years (longer than me in fact) and it was a nice niche in eve that took thought and dedication and provided excellent rewards to those who invested in the skills as i did. The goods provided were always in demand and the items that relied on them for production still got produced in enough quantities to provide a vibrant market.

In CCP´s efforts to gain more people (well Money to **** away on their coke addled distractions) they decided to make Exploration nothing more than mission running without an agent in many respects. They dumbed it down to the point of idiot proof and then they made it into a click fest tablet game with a click fest reward retrieval system that was just a manifestation of their lack of vision and jumping on the latest fad in the pointless time wasting game genre to compensate.

The result of all this is a vast over supply of goods gained at no real risk, they made it easy and this is what happens, like nano´s and countless other lack of foresight game design-wise screw ups it requires a huge nerf.

Getting rid of spew containers probably had more to do with server load than any game play reason, all those spew containers take cpu cycles, but its a start, the click fest mini game should also go (its great for the cat on the tablet, but in eve, get serious), the rats should return so u gotta go mob handed or be skilled enough to deal with it; containers should be made scanner proof so its pure chance just like wreck loot so that cherry picking that leaves sites up until a good Samaritan hacks them for the general good ends.

I´m sorry that you think you can play eve without thought and effort, that easy mode should be the norm and that Jita is the only place to trade, but reward should reflect effort and risk and you seem to want to avoid both.

may i humbly suggest that you take up another occupation for your mouse hand that would give you far more pleasure instead of not wanting to change your behavior to suit the changing circumstances you find yourself under.

edit:spelling/format

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2014-06-12 08:09:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Brainless Bimbo
OP needs to learn history as CCP needs to learn focus



edit was because of double post

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....