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[Crius] Reprocessing feedback

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Author
Jinn Aideron
#61 - 2014-06-11 23:24:02 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Quote:
,,, If you need an explicit, in-window drop target for this to work, why not have one? MockupBig smile ...


why had implemented something similar to this (except cooler, sorry!) but then figured out it wasn't consistent with anything else in EVE so right click (yay) has to do for now Cry

Lol, it had better been cooler because this one took a handful of minutes in PS, and I wasn't paid. Blink

We'll make do with processing either way. What? But everyone loves functional.

Stealth deletes are bad.

Dealth Striker
Perkone
Caldari State
#62 - 2014-06-11 23:37:07 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
mynnna wrote:
I see a LOT of words here, and none of them are doing anything to explain how this would produce interesting gameplay.


Interesting gameplay is highly subjective. If the mechanics are changed from something simple like press button get minerals to an involved process (at least slightly involved as too much gets bad fast). It changes the mining from mine ore-refine-sell minerals to mine ore-sell ore/buy ore-refine-sell minerals.

It's the same reason to get rid of OGB, it's a thing that's there that nobody needs to really thing about beyond having a single alt around to take care of it. My off the cuff solution might not be interesting or compelling, but it's not meant to be the end of the discussion, only a beginning (though it seems like it's already closed from the dev's view).

Further on my suggestion, if volume is used as the factor for reprocessing, it increases the value of compression and creates diversity in what, now, is a very flat market.


You have to leave it instant for the new reprocessing nerf.
CCP cannot let a new player have time to realize how much of a reprocessing nerf there now is.
Striker Out!!
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#63 - 2014-06-12 00:01:00 UTC
Jinn Aideron wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Quote:
,,, If you need an explicit, in-window drop target for this to work, why not have one? MockupBig smile ...


why had implemented something similar to this (except cooler, sorry!) but then figured out it wasn't consistent with anything else in EVE so right click (yay) has to do for now Cry

Lol, it had better been cooler because this one took a handful of minutes in PS, and I wasn't paid. Blink

We'll make do with processing either way. What? But everyone loves functional.


well mine hand animations *crosses hands*

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Wydo
OMEGADYNE LABS
Rising Darkness
#64 - 2014-06-12 00:42:28 UTC
Two inputs:

First:
I am sure you all are addressing this with some sort of global mechanic, but wanted to point it out anyway.

I had several compressed blocks in a contract to me prior to you porting the tranquility mirror to singularity.
Blocks did not update in number to reflect the appropriate amount of ore they actually contained.

Once the contract was accepted they dropped into my hanger but had the Crius reprocessing values.
Can we expect that currently compressed ore blocks will update in numbers to reflect the ore value of them when this patch goes live? Or should we make sure to refine all existing blocks prior to the patch?

Second item:

When refining in a station, you get a pop up window that shows what you are reprocessing, how much it will refine into, and what the yield (percentage is). When refining in an array, it happens instantaneously with no such window. I know I can go back and figure out the yield, but I have no indication of what that is in the array. Is the intention to keep this mechanic this way or will there be a reprocessing window added at a later date. There are pros and cons to both, just curious.

BTW -- LOVE the instant compression in the POS array. So happy you have not added any ridiculous complexity to this!
Adunh Slavy
#65 - 2014-06-12 00:51:56 UTC
Cristl wrote:


Instant things




+1, nothing should be instant. Time and effort are the only things that have value in Eve. Removing the time and effort of something reduces its value. Even if it just 15 minutes for a process, that is enough. Also it's just enough time to fly to a station, swap loads, chit chat a bit and load up the array again.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#66 - 2014-06-12 04:24:34 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
well mine hand animations *crosses hands*


Well, deployables now perform an action by being drag-dropped over a hotzone ("space") and that is a recent UI change which works really well. So why not run with it? I'm confident more contextual drag-drop options would be well received rather than menus.


PS: The UI concept has merit, take station services, I can forsee click-dragging assets over the repair service icon, or the reprocessing icon. Maybe a trash can entry at the bottom of the tree-view which allows assets to be destroyed (with confirmation of course) when dropped over, or dragging them over the market icon to sell.

Maybe dragging any ship over the undock icon would make that ship active and immediately begin the undock process?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#67 - 2014-06-12 10:32:37 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
I might be mistaken, but the 10 second working time of the arrays isn't being used at all and is running instant as far as I can tell


confirming you're (partially) wrong Cool

The repro module does in fact have a working delay.
Compression mod is running instant.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Darkblad
Doomheim
#68 - 2014-06-12 10:47:09 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
The repro module does in fact have a working delay.
Maybe you had a server delay. During my tests (highsec reproc array) it was more like this.

NPEISDRIP

Peter Drakon
The Drakon Family Enterprise Covenant
#69 - 2014-06-12 11:47:40 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
implemented something similar to this (except cooler, sorry!) but then figured out it wasn't consistent with anything else in EVE...well mine hand animations *crosses hands*


Radial menus and inventory window tree are both new things that wasn't consistent with the previous UI designs. New things, if intuitive and practical, are not a bad thing imo, and the base of the UI functionality is over 10 years old.

If you think it's cool and nice, then fight for it, and put it into SiSi - the crowd will judge it. Blink Based on previous stuff coming from your team I think we'll like it. Smile
Qoi
Exert Force
#70 - 2014-06-12 11:54:13 UTC
That is one slick reprocessing interface! No "Request Quote" button? MAGIC!

The warning for expensive items is incorrect, it says "Warning: non-repackaged and valuable item" for some of my items. (For example a stack of 1700 Graviton Reactor Units .. pretty sure you can't stack non-repackaged items!)

http://eve-industry.org

Darkblad
Doomheim
#71 - 2014-06-12 12:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
CCP Punkturis wrote:
it wasn't consistent with anything else in EVE so right click (yay) has to do for now Cry
not consistent as in:
Position and hints to settings menus
NES as a whole
Launch (only) the new deployables by drag & drop

Especially the last point is not consistent but very comfortable. And still, other items keep the requirement to anchor them on right click (I'm aware of that to change this there's way more work involved). Why not provide some new and comfortable functionality and change existing features once the time is right?

Don't get me wrong. I really appreciate many of the recent changes to the EVE UI.

NPEISDRIP

Darkblad
Doomheim
#72 - 2014-06-12 12:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
No copy paste functionaliy for entries in the reprocessing offer window Sad

Also:
If I remember correctly, a block of compressed ore is made of a batch of the raw ore (100 units).
Now let's take Arkonor as an example (the batch got added 1275 Units of Mexallon as announced in the Fortune favors the bold Devblog)
Here's the minerals of a batch, the quantites are from left to right
6905 x Tritanium,
1275 x Mexallon
115 x Zydrine
230 x Megacyte

On Sisi, however, one unit of compressed Arkonor contains
7672 Tritanium
1420 Mexallon
128 Zydrine
256 Megacyte

Roughly 111 % of the minerals of a batch.

And the blueprints for compressed [whatever] are still present in the market

Same applies to ice, like Thick blue Ice
Compressed stuff also contains roughly 111 % of the raw ice.


Thanks for pointing this out, this will be taken care of.
Confirmed this being fixed as of build 797200 \o/

There's still that yellow "!" in the reprocessing window strangely attached to the compressed variant.

Also: The general "Reprocessing Calculations" doesn't take into account my standings at the station I'm docked (but does so for the base yield).

NPEISDRIP

Velicitia
XS Tech
#73 - 2014-06-12 15:44:22 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
The repro module does in fact have a working delay.
Maybe you had a server delay. During my tests (highsec reproc array) it was more like this.



could be -- I only tried a handful of times, then got annoyed that the numbers were all wrong.X

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Cristl
#74 - 2014-06-12 17:59:08 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We have seen your post on the General Discussion forums before.

We considered having Reprocessing take time early on the Industry overhaul process, but we quickly dropped that idea. Mainly because this activity isn't just something that only is used by Industrialist people. It's also used by players that want to quickly reprocess loot, or quickly get rid of hangar items.


Thank you for the reply. But then why not just send the reprocessing skills to the learning-skills graveyard, give everyone perfect refine, and refund skillpoints?

Are you suggesting that at the moment people are enjoying the reprocessing mechanic? Would removing skills step on certain people's gameplay? Let's face it, giving all people perfect refine would change nothing for those who already had skills, change nothing for those who never intended to get the skills, and actually benefit those who wish to train for or with partial skills already trained. We all win (or break even). Hurrah! Down with pointless training!

It is just a silly job that an alt needs to do. Remove the skills or tie them to a task with non-zero duration please.
Alain Colcer
Nadire Security Consultants
#75 - 2014-06-13 00:11:09 UTC
I would like to raise what i consider an important point here, and has to do with current TQ "usability" of refining, vs singularity values.

On this character (my main), i have enough refining skills to have perfect refine for loot (scrapmetal) and all high-sec ores (from veld up to jaspet). This include extensive work on standings for several NPC corporations. Trained such skills on a PvP oriented character to support past corp activities.

I just connected to SISI and reviewed by how much i will be affected, it turns out i only get 65% for the ores in the same NPC stations......which is a drastic drop. I don't mind lossing the yield from NPC loot, because that required nerfing to boost mining as a profession....but i can no longer buy ore from the market and refine it myself.....without incurring in a heavy economic loss.

Would it be possible to consider refunding refining skills? i will train an alt to serve the same function, but it has no purpose to be trained to the new required levels on my main which is not an industrialist (albeit it has basic skills to work with tech1 refining and ammo production).

Its not a whine about the whole change, since i really like the new balance towards miners and ore extraction acquiring importance.....but my abilities are moving from "useful" towards the "not bother" category...and albeit there has been past rebalances with skills....this is the first one that actually hurts not specialized choices....
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#76 - 2014-06-13 03:31:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Laendra
Having problems figuring out how to reprocess in an outpost. IIRC, ALL outposts are supposed to allow that now???

Devblog wrote:

Little outpost on the prairie

Player-built outposts are currently very biased regarding reprocessing. Minmatar outposts have a default 35% output and all others have none. Currently there is not much of a choice on that regard.

In the same vein, there is not so much of an incentive to upgrade an outpost for better reprocessing yields, since perfect reprocessing rates are so easily achieved.

After the summer expansion, all outposts will now have a default 50% reprocessing rate (on all items, including ore, ices, ships, ammunition etc…). However:

Amarr, Caldari and Gallente outposts can be upgraded to further increase ore and ice reprocessing by 2%, 4% and 7% (for a total of 52%, 54% and 57%)
Minmatar outposts can be upgraded to add further 3%, 7% and 10% on ore and ice reprocessing rates (for a total of 53%, 57% and 60%)

In practice, that means that someone with perfect skills, implant and standings refining at a fully upgraded Minmatar outpost will receive 14.4% more reprocessed minerals than currently.

However, it is true not everyone has the resources or organization to own outposts, which brings us to the next point.
Sales Alt negrodamus
SalesAltCorp
#77 - 2014-06-13 06:13:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sales Alt negrodamus
edit: i was wrong

"As such, to keep ratio fairly identical, we are going to boost all minerals and ice products gained by reprocessing ores and ices approximately by 38.1% (1/0.724). This will apply to all the unrefined alchemy material as well."
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#78 - 2014-06-13 16:14:55 UTC
Alain Colcer wrote:
I would like to raise what i consider an important point here, and has to do with current TQ "usability" of refining, vs singularity values.

On this character (my main), i have enough refining skills to have perfect refine for loot (scrapmetal) and all high-sec ores (from veld up to jaspet). This include extensive work on standings for several NPC corporations. Trained such skills on a PvP oriented character to support past corp activities.

I just connected to SISI and reviewed by how much i will be affected, it turns out i only get 65% for the ores in the same NPC stations......which is a drastic drop. I don't mind lossing the yield from NPC loot, because that required nerfing to boost mining as a profession....but i can no longer buy ore from the market and refine it myself.....without incurring in a heavy economic loss.

Would it be possible to consider refunding refining skills? i will train an alt to serve the same function, but it has no purpose to be trained to the new required levels on my main which is not an industrialist (albeit it has basic skills to work with tech1 refining and ammo production).

Its not a whine about the whole change, since i really like the new balance towards miners and ore extraction acquiring importance.....but my abilities are moving from "useful" towards the "not bother" category...and albeit there has been past rebalances with skills....this is the first one that actually hurts not specialized choices....


Perfect refine in hisec was trivial to obtain. Soon, in order to get the same amount of minerals as "perfect" one has to actually train perfect skills, get perfect standings, and use the best implant.

In other words, perfect refine now actually requires perfection instead of mediocrity.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Velicitia
XS Tech
#79 - 2014-06-13 20:21:30 UTC
TBH, I'm still a bit on the fence that you can be "perfect" in NPC stations at all...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#80 - 2014-06-13 21:46:51 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
TBH, I'm still a bit on the fence that you can be "perfect" in NPC stations at all...


Why so? You get more than perfect in POS and even more than that perfect in player outposts.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.