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the future of eve

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Author
Gel Musana
LOL a Sticky Situation
#21 - 2014-06-11 21:07:22 UTC
Rin Valador wrote:
"Stagnating"

Stopped there. Every day has been new for me and I have not stopped having fun for over two years now in EvE.


Yes, the first 3 years are exciting. After that you find out that there is nothing else to do and that the game is not being expanded.
That's where I am.

Ideology  s-h-i-t  list https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Gel%20Musana

Gel Musana
LOL a Sticky Situation
#22 - 2014-06-11 21:09:42 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
So everything getting overhauled is now stagnation?

And word from the wise: If you plan to write a wall of text, put the essence of what you will elaborate on in the very first few sentences and not just ramble on and expect anyone to read all of it. One of the few useful things I learned in school.


Re-balancing should be done on the side of expansions, not be the main delivery. Rubbish.

Ideology  s-h-i-t  list https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Gel%20Musana

Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-06-11 21:12:29 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
- You believe EVE to be stagnating.
This is because you are doing things that are not dynamic by their very nature. And no... PvE can never be completely dynamic. It's a computer. Computers can be studied, recorded, analyzed, experimented with, and... ultimately... "gamed" and published for all to see.
You can add more "DEV created " content... but then players will devour it over the course of a month and get bored again... necessitating more content being created... beginning a never ending cycle that ultimately results in the PvE system collapsing on itself (see: what has happened to old content in World of Warcraft).

What the DEVs are doing right now is creating and re-purposing "tools" and mechanics so that players can create their own content... with, for, and/or against one another. And this has FAR more longevity.


PvE content is not dynamic, as it's driven by pieces of code.
Players generate PvP content, and that content is unpredictable and challenging.

Why players don't generate PvE content?
Why PvE content isn't useful for PvP?

Let's say a miner mines a lot. The Empires love him. They give him a new device, which is triggered by anyone shooting on the miner. The single use device produces 99.99% resists for 30 seconds, plus a warp disruption bubble for 20 seconds. The miner also can call a NPC mercenary fleet, which leaves no wrecks if destroyed, but will pod any pilots trapped by the disruption bubble after CONCORD kiils their ships.

There is no way a ganker can tell whether a miner is a sitting duck or can effectively pod him with a twist of the wrist if he tries to gank the miner.

But then the ganker can PvE too, and earn a disruption bypass so he can warp out his pod before the NPC mercenaries tackle it.

So both players would be able to generate content through PvE.

Of course, that would not be EVE as we know it. But maybe it would have more future.

Q: Should we be worried? A: Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.

dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-06-11 21:13:51 UTC
kirean3464 wrote:
and please dont reply with "then go to null or lowsec" because the point was incursions are lots of safe easy isk and i just would like to see some new additions to mix them up a bit that is all that i was speaking about

You focus to much on making isk...

In the end it's more important how you make your isk, then how much isk you are making. Find something you like doing, and find out how you can make enough isk to get by doing that, you don't always have to make the absolute maximum amount of isk. Unless you pick some profession that is not straight forward like bounty hunting or piracy, you can pretty much with every professions make enough to get some ships, buy a plex and have enough pocket change to not have to live like a bum.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#25 - 2014-06-11 21:19:51 UTC
They have added a bunch of stuff, or revitalized existing things to make them more viable, and yet you still won't step away from your precious incursions.

The lack of things to do isn't the problem you caring about them is.

The Drake is a Lie

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-06-11 21:23:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
kirean3464 wrote:

Personally i feel like eve online has been stagnating for a very long time


I agree. In my opinion, CCP have not added anything substantial for as long as i've been playing and i've become board to the point where i only log on to add skills or set up my PI.

For as long as i've played the game, CCP have shared their grand plans to shake eve up (ring mining, wis, new asteroid physics, visible damage on ships, new tactical overlay) but they never really deliver on their promises. All we get are a few fixes of old content and some new ships/mods. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the features in the game have been improved over the last three years but turning bad things into acceptable things is not a cause for celebration in my book.

Despite recent ship balancing and mechanic tweaks, I think CCP are scared of making any real changes to the way the game works. Mining is still a joke, local as a free intel tool still exists, the farming of incursions is ridiculous unbalanced in terms of risk vs reward, and pvp is just a game of rock-paper-scissors.

I think most of my feeling of disappointment come from the fact that i live in wormhole space which haven't seen any worthwhile new content added since the wormhole expansion was released.

Unfortunately, i think i'm going to have to unsubscribe my main until the game picks up again, as plex prices are way too high to pay if all i'm doing is training skills and bitching on the forums. Blink
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2014-06-11 21:27:10 UTC
Gel Musana wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
So everything getting overhauled is now stagnation?

And word from the wise: If you plan to write a wall of text, put the essence of what you will elaborate on in the very first few sentences and not just ramble on and expect anyone to read all of it. One of the few useful things I learned in school.


Re-balancing should be done on the side of expansions, not be the main delivery. Rubbish.


No, fixing the game is more important than anything else. The ship rebalace has provided more content than any "content expansion".
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#28 - 2014-06-11 21:29:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Gel Musana wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
So everything getting overhauled is now stagnation?

And word from the wise: If you plan to write a wall of text, put the essence of what you will elaborate on in the very first few sentences and not just ramble on and expect anyone to read all of it. One of the few useful things I learned in school.


Re-balancing should be done on the side of expansions, not be the main delivery. Rubbish.


No, fixing the game is more important than anything else. The ship rebalace has provided more content than any "content expansion".


+1 to this. Jesus features are just more crap that will have to get fixed eventually. Make the game work from the ground up, first last and always.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#29 - 2014-06-11 21:34:27 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.

Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.


26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Prince Kobol
#30 - 2014-06-11 21:34:34 UTC
I do agree that Eve is in a period of stagnation.

You could argue that the PCU count supports this argument.

Whilst the content updates we have been getting over the past 18 months is all well and good, I feel that until the thorny issue of Sov mechanics are tackled then the stagnation will continue.

As for the PvE aspects of the game, sure a lot could be done to improve it however here we have a problem.

Lets say for arguments sake that CCP make NPC rats in both missions and incursions much more intelligent, random spawns in missions, disabling Concord in systems were Incursions occur, make asteroids just lumps of rocks that requiring scanning being you mine then and all the other things people have posted over the years to make PvE activities much more interesting and involved.

I guarantee you see the forum flooded with posts from people crying literally seas of tears and threatening to quit because they are no longer able to run their missions / Incursion semi afk whilst watching their favourite TV show on Net flicks / Reading a book, fapping etc

I swear the amount of butt hurt would be truly mind blowing.

My personal view is that CCP looks at the PvE side as a necessary evil, a way for players to earn isk to allow them to PvP in the easiest and most effortless way possible without actually just giving them isk.

I can not think of any other reason why after all these years it is still as mind numbing and tedious as it is now.

I have tried pretty much everything there is to do in Eve over the years and personally I find all forms of PvE awful. I hate doing any PvE. If I had the money I would just buy plex's and never PvE again... ever.

As for PvP,

FW was fun for a short while but became very repetitive. Far too many people using alts in multiple stabbed cloaky frigs. FW is more of a way to earn isk for most then a form of PvP.

Tried HS war Deccing but 95% of time players would just leave the corp and the rest would just never undock. Lots of fun Roll

Gate Camping, no thanks.

Low Sec / Null Sec, I find our FC's more entertaining then the actual fights most of the times.

WH - For me the fact that you can just visit a website and get detailed information on every WH has kind of ruined it for me. For me WH's should be a place of mystery and down to the us, the players to explore them by actually going in and flying around, not by opening up a website.

I mean you can have a full detailed list of every WH that your static will connect to.. where the hell is the mystery or fun in that?

The only thing I really truly enjoy is corp roams and again, it mostly because of the people I am flying with then the actual game mechanics themselves.

I can't see much changing for me until Sov Mechanics are improved.



Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-06-11 21:47:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Corvez
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Gel Musana wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
So everything getting overhauled is now stagnation?

And word from the wise: If you plan to write a wall of text, put the essence of what you will elaborate on in the very first few sentences and not just ramble on and expect anyone to read all of it. One of the few useful things I learned in school.


Re-balancing should be done on the side of expansions, not be the main delivery. Rubbish.


No, fixing the game is more important than anything else. The ship rebalace has provided more content than any "content expansion".


+1 to this. Jesus features are just more crap that will have to get fixed eventually. Make the game work from the ground up, first last and always.


Fixing old content and reballancing ships is like removeing potholes from a road. The jorney is improved and more people might use the road but the destenation is still the same. Fixes and changes are not new content, new content would be adding a new road that leads to a new destination.

Jesus features attrack new people and keep the game feeling fresh and exciting. PI and Incursions are the most recent examples of jesus features that add new content for many people in eve.

All of our subscription money shouldn't be going towards fixing broken stuff, as that is what CCP should be doing as part of their quality control system. Pluse, that thinking lets them get away with releasing broken content in the future.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2014-06-11 21:48:42 UTC
CCP started working on sov several patches ago with a big one coming in about six weeks.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2014-06-11 21:50:45 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Fixing old content and reballancing ships is like removeing potholes from a road. The jorney is improved and more people might use the road but the destenation is still the same. Fixes and changes are not new content, new content would be adding a new road that leads to a new destination.

Jesus features attrack new people and keep the game feeling fresh and exciting. PI and Incursions are the most recent examples of jesus features that add new content for many people in eve.



The industrial rebalance in six weeks will add more content that those two expansions combined.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#34 - 2014-06-11 21:51:13 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:

Jesus features attrack new people and keep the game feeling fresh and exciting. PI and Incursions are the most recent examples of jesus features that add new content for many people in eve.



Please, regale me with how many players the game has retained because of Planetary Interaction.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-06-11 22:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Corvez
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:

Jesus features attrack new people and keep the game feeling fresh and exciting. PI and Incursions are the most recent examples of jesus features that add new content for many people in eve.



Please, regale me with how many players the game has retained because of Planetary Interaction.


You don't "regale" numbers...

I could ask you to do the same thing. Give me the exact number of players retained by making battleships slightly less crap than they already where. It's a stupid and pointless question.

If you want to do your own reaserch, go an look at the server numbers around expansion releases. Expansions that have no content don't retain players. Failing that go to the wormhole section of the forums and tell all the people there that they don't exist.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-06-11 22:06:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Fixing old content and reballancing ships is like removeing potholes from a road. The jorney is improved and more people might use the road but the destenation is still the same. Fixes and changes are not new content, new content would be adding a new road that leads to a new destination.

Jesus features attrack new people and keep the game feeling fresh and exciting. PI and Incursions are the most recent examples of jesus features that add new content for many people in eve.



The industrial rebalance in six weeks will add more content that those two expansions combined.


No it won't. It will improve existing cotent.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#37 - 2014-06-11 22:06:26 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:


I could ask you to do the same thing. Give me the exact number of players retained by making battleships slightly less crap than they already where. It's a stupid and pointless question.


And unlike a Jesus feature, that takes a few weeks of dev time at most. Unlike, oh, I don't know, Incarna. Which took a few years. The merits of the two cannot be compared.


Quote:

If you want to do your own reaserch, go an look at the server numbers around expansion releases. Expansions that have no content don't retain players. Failing that go to the wormhole section of the forums and tell all the people there that they don't exist.


"content" this, "content" that.

This is a sandbox game. Stop demanding to be spoonfed.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2014-06-11 22:12:43 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Fixing old content and reballancing ships is like removeing potholes from a road. The jorney is improved and more people might use the road but the destenation is still the same. Fixes and changes are not new content, new content would be adding a new road that leads to a new destination.

Jesus features attrack new people and keep the game feeling fresh and exciting. PI and Incursions are the most recent examples of jesus features that add new content for many people in eve.



The industrial rebalance in six weeks will add more content that those two expansions combined.


No it won't. It will improve existing cotent.


There is right now zero industry in null aside from the building of supercaps.

Every null power is in the process of a total restructuring of their space to create industrial hubs to supply their own forces. The undertaking is massive and will result is sweeping changes across the entire game that will impact everyone. This change is going to provide a massive amount of content to a much bigger number of players.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-06-11 22:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Quinn Corvez wrote:


All of our subscription money shouldn't be going towards fixing broken stuff, as that is what CCP should be doing as part of their quality control system.


Oh you're absolutely right.

Were you here for Incarna? Unfortunately, quality control was exactly what they did not do for the sake of releasing some new half-arsed 'Jesus Feature' as you call it, while many aspects of the game remained in a badly unbalanced and even sometimes unfinished state. What really upset people was how unfinished the 'Jesus Feature' was at the expense of those fixes.

Then, they started fixing stuff. They acknowledged that they screwed up, and started fixing all the stuff that was broken. There was so much that they're still fixing stuff. There's a lot less left to fix now because of it.

The initial screw up lost them a lot of subs. The turn around won them back. What that told CCP was that players prefer a functional game, and the ones that want new content spoon-fed to them on a daily basis are in a minority, because everyone else is busy creating their own.

Every time someone tells me to do my own research, I know they haven't done much of their own, probably just settled into agreement with the first opinion they came across that validated their own, or they haven't done the proper analysis to understand what the research means. Meanwhile, they often leave out some of the most glaringly obvious basic facts. For example, anti-vaxxers tell me to 'do my research' while complaining about toxins being injected into the bloodstream. Meanwhile, vaccines don't get injected into the bloodstream, they are injected into muscle tissue, so you know right away they don't know **** about vaccines.

It's the same with you. You're leaving out the massive backlash over Incarna, followed by the massive player return that occurred when CCP started fixing stuff. You're also leaving out the small, annoying little factoid that subs are still rising. They could be new players, or they could be old ones creating alts - either way, someone likes the game enough to throw more money at it. When you've explained that little anomalous gap in your research, then maybe you'll be on to something.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#40 - 2014-06-11 22:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Hello again kirean. Reading your post, all I can think about is the time I WarDec'd your corp, and you guys stayed either offline or docked up for the week. No wonder you feel the way you do. You see, EVE is not stagnating. What you're actually feeling is boredom with your playstyle. This boredom, coupled with your fear of trying anything else, is what's bringing your EVE career to a crashing halt.

There are so many amazing things to do in EVE besides mine and mission in HiSec. But you don't seem willing to try those things. It's not CCPs job to provide fun for you. CCP only provides you with a gigantic toolbox. It's your job, as the player, to build and create things with that toolbox. You are not willing to do that, or to get involved in a group doing that. For players like you, yes, EVE will become stagnant and you will take breaks or just quit altogether. The game will not suffer from your loss, however.

My suggestion to you is to learn what the core values of EVE Online are. After absorbing that, start watching Fanfest presentations and get involved in the CSM. You don't have to run for CSM, but just get involved in a dialogue with them. And always remember; the health of EVE Online as a whole is far, far more important than your myopic enjoyment of HiSec mining. Approach the subject with more humility instead of demanding that the Devs cater to your playstyle.

That said, I do feel that HiSec needs some livening up to encourage more content, more conflict, and more players organizing themselves into meaningful groups. I'll probably write a blog about it sometime.

Take care kirean, and remember; in every color there's the light, and in every stone sleeps a crystal.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist