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[Crius] Little things from Team Super Friends

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Castelo Selva
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#101 - 2014-06-11 18:17:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Castelo Selva
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding rig fitting, the skill requirement has never made a whole lot of sense there as it can so easily be bypassed by simply having another character fitting the ship for you. So we want these new changes to apply to rigs as well. The long term plan for having the skills be more meaningful is to increase the drawback, but increase the effectiveness of the skills in reducing the drawback, similar to some of you have been suggesting. This change would also involve giving drawback to rigs that don't currently have any drawback (like the Ancillary Current Routers). The Jury Rigging skill can probably remain as is, as it is requirement for other skills and used in production. This change will not happen in Crius, but sometimes in the following releases.


My 2 cents are a simple sugestion: do not change the way / drawback of the skills, simple forbidden the ship to undock if the character do not have the skills to use the rig.

You already programed the client / server to run a check if the person can or cannot use all modules, to inform the players that some modules will be offlined and cannot be onlined. It will not overload the server status. If they did not have skills to fly the rig, so no undock for him/ her.

That way (I think) it is more easy to implement for the Crius release without big changes. It will not impact industry and mass fit of ships.

Castelo

Best post ever!
Wilhelm Ormand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2014-06-11 18:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Wilhelm Ormand
CCP SoniClover wrote:
[...] This change would also involve giving drawback to rigs that don't currently have any drawback (like the Ancillary Current Routers). [...]

Well this escalated quickly. What are the kind of drawbacks you're thinking of?
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#103 - 2014-06-11 18:43:34 UTC
Oh for the love of god, no. Let's just get rid of jury rigging and refund the SP instead of adding drawbacks onto modules that didn't have drawbacks and don't need them.
Dave stark
#104 - 2014-06-11 18:47:43 UTC
giving rigs bigger penalties is just stupid, there's nothing wrong with the current rig penalty/penalty reduction from skills at the moment.

just like freighters, you're "fixing" things that simply aren't broken.

why? why is the new ethos from CCP to just mess with everything even if it's working perfectly fine? are you that desperate to find things to do instead of actually tackling old legacy code?

seriously, stop breaking things as an excuse not to deal with actual issues that need addressing regardless of how distasteful it might be.
Wilhelm Ormand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-06-11 18:47:54 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Oh for the love of god, no. Let's just get rid of jury rigging and refund the SP instead of adding drawbacks onto modules that didn't have drawbacks and don't need them.

I agree. This has the potention to nerf a lot of valid fits, and will probably discourage creative fitting in general.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2014-06-11 18:51:28 UTC
Wilhelm Ormand wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Oh for the love of god, no. Let's just get rid of jury rigging and refund the SP instead of adding drawbacks onto modules that didn't have drawbacks and don't need them.

I agree. This has the potention to nerf a lot of valid fits, and will probably discourage creative fitting in general.


Naturally. And given how short the train to JR IV is I don't think its a significant issue whether or not the skill is strictly NECESSARY or not. Its there for convenience at least.

The actual significant issue is how new drawbacks to rigs that don't need them, will affect the game.
OptimuzPR
Brothership Of EVE
#107 - 2014-06-11 21:07:25 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding rig fitting, the skill requirement has never made a whole lot of sense there as it can so easily be bypassed by simply having another character fitting the ship for you. So we want these new changes to apply to rigs as well. The long term plan for having the skills be more meaningful is to increase the drawback, but increase the effectiveness of the skills in reducing the drawback, similar to some of you have been suggesting. This change would also involve giving drawback to rigs that don't currently have any drawback (like the Ancillary Current Routers). The Jury Rigging skill can probably remain as is, as it is requirement for other skills and used in production. This change will not happen in Crius, but sometimes in the following releases.


You are basically giving people who didn't have the necessary skills to fit T2 rigs before a free pass. You are assuming that people always have access to someone who can fit any T2 rig. Some of us skilled those skills to lvl 4 so we could use T2 rigs at will and with less drawbacks.
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#108 - 2014-06-11 21:16:40 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Agrakari Saraki wrote:
1) Does the fleet warp speed take into account the non-warped members? Put simply, if I am in a fleet of two members with a no-warp flagged cruiser and an interceptor, does the fleet warp at the speed of the interceptor? (Hint: please yes please!!!)
1) the people who are in the warp affect the warp, so no (interesting question though)
Say I am in a 8au/s Crow. my fleetmate is in a 2.5au/s Drake. Neither of us have no-warp flag checked.
Can you clarify what speed I warp in these situations, both currently and after this change?

A) Fleet boss fleet warps us from standstill. I enter warp first, then the drake enters warp later. We are both warping but are not in the same warp tunnel.
B) Fleet boss warps us from standstill. Drake cancels warp.
C) Fleet boss warps us from align, we are in the same warp tunnel.

I know for sure that case C will make me match the drake for 2.5au/s. What about the others?

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
Station Sitter
Heavy Star Industries
#109 - 2014-06-11 21:48:49 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Jassmin Joy wrote:
Elly Artrald wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Hi,

CoolFit modules without the required skillCool
Good for those massfitting ships for other people. You can now fit modules without having the required skills but you cannot online them. When you undock in a ship with modules you don't have skills for, you will get a warning (suppressible) saying that you can't online some of your modules because of lacking skills.


Is this also true for rigs?


Of course it isnt, Rigs work diffrently from modules, You dont need skills to use rigs you cant fit so doing this for rigs would just make the fittings skills redundant.



Well, they could be considered (by that metric) redundant anyway? because people provide services to fit rigs right now.

There's a penalty that applies to rig use, which is reduced by the skill.


True, the Devs should take a look at either removing the requirement to fit rigs, since a large majority of people use others to fit the rigs for them, OR change rigs so that you have to have the prerequisite to get the benefit of having them installed.
Station Sitter
Heavy Star Industries
#110 - 2014-06-11 21:55:49 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding rig fitting, the skill requirement has never made a whole lot of sense there as it can so easily be bypassed by simply having another character fitting the ship for you. So we want these new changes to apply to rigs as well. The long term plan for having the skills be more meaningful is to increase the drawback, but increase the effectiveness of the skills in reducing the drawback, similar to some of you have been suggesting. This change would also involve giving drawback to rigs that don't currently have any drawback (like the Ancillary Current Routers). The Jury Rigging skill can probably remain as is, as it is requirement for other skills and used in production. This change will not happen in Crius, but sometimes in the following releases.



I highly recommend NOT doing it this way. It will needlessly apply a harsh penalty to people in ships that already have them fitted. Suggestion is to not take the rigs into account unless you have the proper skills to use them....basically, in game terms, you don't have the skills needed to interface with the rigs, so, the interface won't work for you at all.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#111 - 2014-06-11 21:59:49 UTC
Nicen Jehr wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Agrakari Saraki wrote:
1) Does the fleet warp speed take into account the non-warped members? Put simply, if I am in a fleet of two members with a no-warp flagged cruiser and an interceptor, does the fleet warp at the speed of the interceptor? (Hint: please yes please!!!)
1) the people who are in the warp affect the warp, so no (interesting question though)
Say I am in a 8au/s Crow. my fleetmate is in a 2.5au/s Drake. Neither of us have no-warp flag checked.
Can you clarify what speed I warp in these situations, both currently and after this change?

A) Fleet boss fleet warps us from standstill. I enter warp first, then the drake enters warp later. We are both warping but are not in the same warp tunnel.
B) Fleet boss warps us from standstill. Drake cancels warp.
C) Fleet boss warps us from align, we are in the same warp tunnel.

I know for sure that case C will make me match the drake for 2.5au/s. What about the others?


there's no change in warp speed, it's just the ships in warp that affect the speed as before

(you should go and play around with this on Sisi yourself though Big smile)

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#112 - 2014-06-11 23:03:30 UTC
Both great changes. Me gusto!
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#113 - 2014-06-11 23:25:45 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Nicen Jehr wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Agrakari Saraki wrote:
1) Does the fleet warp speed take into account the non-warped members? Put simply, if I am in a fleet of two members with a no-warp flagged cruiser and an interceptor, does the fleet warp at the speed of the interceptor? (Hint: please yes please!!!)
1) the people who are in the warp affect the warp, so no (interesting question though)
Say I am in a 8au/s Crow. my fleetmate is in a 2.5au/s Drake. Neither of us have no-warp flag checked.
Can you clarify what speed I warp in these situations, both currently and after this change?

A) Fleet boss fleet warps us from standstill. I enter warp first, then the drake enters warp later. We are both warping but are not in the same warp tunnel.
B) Fleet boss warps us from standstill. Drake cancels warp.
C) Fleet boss warps us from align, we are in the same warp tunnel.

I know for sure that case C will make me match the drake for 2.5au/s. What about the others?


there's no change in warp speed, it's just the ships in warp that affect the speed as before

(you should go and play around with this on Sisi yourself though Big smile)


But here is a tricky part in this CCP Punkturis

Right now in above example we have 3 ships - a drake, a cenptor and some unspecified Fleet Boos, lets say in a carrier that is even slower.

If a FC in a carrier initiate fleet warp with the flag for no fleet warp being turned on (so he does not go into warp) will the two remaining ships go into warp at the speed of drake or carrier?

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2014-06-12 07:59:38 UTC
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
That's disappointing to hear, because the interaction between players of being able to fit rigs and swap ships about was a very unique thing and I think it did add to the game in some minor way.

In some incredibly trivial way.
What we gain from this change is a lot greater than what we lose from it. Net positive, move forward with it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2014-06-12 08:02:09 UTC
Except for the idea to give rigs bigger penalties and changing the skills. Keep the skill bonuses and rig penalties the same as they are now. You didn't refund SP for Combat Drone Operation. You don't need to do it here.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#116 - 2014-06-12 12:39:21 UTC
Rigs are permanent - modules are not. Modules can be onlined and offlined - rigs cannot.
I echo the sentiments of others that rigs should really be left alone as is.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Apaolo Miros
Talking In Stations Corporation
#117 - 2014-06-12 16:31:57 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Hi,

so far we have two new very nice little things for you

CoolFlag exempt from fleet warp Cool

CoolFit modules without the required skillCool

<3

Both area really welcomed changes. Thanks very much for all the work.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#118 - 2014-06-12 16:33:39 UTC
Apaolo Miros wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Hi,

so far we have two new very nice little things for you

CoolFlag exempt from fleet warp Cool

CoolFit modules without the required skillCool

<3

Both area really welcomed changes. Thanks very much for all the work.


thank you!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#119 - 2014-06-12 17:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Erasmus Phoenix
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Except for the idea to give rigs bigger penalties and changing the skills. Keep the skill bonuses and rig penalties the same as they are now. You didn't refund SP for Combat Drone Operation. You don't need to do it here.


The drone change didn't leave combat characters with SP invested into what is essentially now going to be a production skill, since Jury Rigging IV will no longer have any effect other than letting you manufacture stuff.

I'm not necessarily pushing for any change or refund for the other skills, because they will still have a benefit, but that one in particular seems ridiculous.

I don't see why the whole thing can't just be left as it is, because rigs already work differently from modules, there's no need to turn them into something that anyone can use without either training or player interaction.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#120 - 2014-06-12 19:04:19 UTC
CCP Pukturis,

This is an amazing change that is long overdue (concerning fittings). Along that same vein, I have the two following suggestions:

Skillqueue - Please allow us to inject any skill even if we haven't injected or trained the prerequisites, and allow us to queue that skill as long as


  1. The skill prerequisites are trained.
  2. The skill prerequisites precede it in the queue.


This would be a majorly huge quality of life improvement, especially for newer players queuing up large numbers of skills.

Planetary Interaction -


  1. Please allow us to build planetary installations but not make use of them (online them) until we've upgraded our Command Centers to the appropriate level.
  2. Also allow us to online and offline planetary installations up to a certain limit (dependent upon our level of "Command Center Upgrades"). This would be a major quality of life improvement for those who do PI, especially on a mass scale, or in HiSec where profit margins are already pushed to the very limit and players cannot afford to destroy and rebuild constantly.
  3. On that note, please make "Command Center" and "Spaceport" graphic and the "hit box" physically bigger than extractors and processors and allow a "snap to grid" option for extractors and processors so that we can create beautiful, symmetrical, and efficient setups.


That is all. Thank you for all your hard work.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist