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Cloak mechanics need an overhaul

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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#41 - 2014-06-10 19:54:42 UTC
Alright. People or game mechanics. Which one can CCP actually change?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#42 - 2014-06-10 19:56:02 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Alright. People or game mechanics. Which one can CCP actually change?


Ah! Time to form the Ministry of Alterations

Where they.... change... people

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#43 - 2014-06-10 19:56:11 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
The issue is the people, not the mechanic.

Debatable. Sometimes I think older players accept broken mechanics a tad too readily and rush to defend them simply because they are jaded by the debate. A workaround or citing player experience doesn't mean there isn't a flaw.

If people have worked to acquire sov in a system, or take possession of a wormhole 1 person should not be able to perma camp it for intel or hotdrops with no risk just by logging in and cloaking after downtime. Every day. Throw in disposable NPC alts and it highlights further how difficult it is to retaliate. Add in a bit of local smack off and yeah, people will persistently ask how this mechanic is 'fair'. Doesn't mean the complaint is unfounded or that they should be tossed onto the 'whiner' heap eternally, maybe there are some valid complaints mixed in there.

Fair enough larger groups can move. Nobody likes them anyway, quite honestly they can baww all they like. Small sov holders with a handful of systems can be locked out permenantly from isk making in space they fought to conquer by a handful of [not AFK] cloakers, as can wormholers. Oh wait, there are no small sov holders. Let's consider why that might be again.

Local (or lack of it) it is not the issue. AFK cloaking is less of an issue in WH space because you can't maintain hotdrop range. It's the ability to be undocked, in space perpetually invulnerable (with really minimal investment, SP or equipment wise) that winds people up. And rightly so, it goes against the game ethos.There should be mutual risk in all ingame activities, and the ability to engage in combat to decide a winner.

The solution to these complaints might be to address the impact across various types of space, rather than a single fix.


Then there is also the minimal risk of losing ships if afk cloaking were removed, as the only effort one has to put into keeping his ship safe is to align to a safe point and wait for local to display something that is not blue. I was not around to see who came first, local or the afk cloaker, but I am assuming the latter is a player solution to the former.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-06-10 20:13:18 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
The whole issue is beeing looked at from the wrong perspective,
which shows by the proposed solutions, which are all pretty much crap.

Delaying local or anything else that removes intel will only make people not play at all,
because cowards will always stay cowards.

These people are basically highseccers, but highsec isn't paying them enough.
Think about who actually rents space in nullsec and for what reasons.


Imagine highsec with delayed or no local at all.


We'd literally lose tons of players.



The weird thing about this is that this might not actually be bad in the long run,
because such a change could be well marketed and implemented into the game,
leading to more subs actually, because it's simply that dangerous to play it.

Of course new tools would be added to help players. Look at the dscan disruptor, for example.
Now imagine that spread in multiple dozens throughout every system. As example.


Btw!

When the empires are crumbling and CONCORD sees issues coming ...
... will the new space be carebear space, for others hard to reach ...
... and highsec finally be free from the wrath of CONCORD and the carebears?

Will NullSec finally turn into proper empires with citizens?


I bet most people can't even imagine the realitiy. There'd be me, in nullsec,
suicide ganking people who roam around, because it's an empire space
and safe enough to do so ...

... but there's no CONCORD! Who protects these people?

Yes, using Intel makes us cowards. Did you want to make your own "no fight culture" thread?

I see a lot of suggestions to make things easier for those on the offensive. I'm not sure why you think combat against ships without offensive capabilities should be easier for you than it is now. If you don't like Local the way it is, EVE provides you a playground with some different rules.. wormholes.

BTW, you are free to go roaming deep in SOV space as a suicide ganker. Let me know how successful you are at that task. The "CONCORD" there won't wait until you attack to blast you into oblivion. No doubt you take your ability to dock, re-ship, and warp out with your pod for granted.. benefits of bubble-free, virtually predator free highsec.

I'll be happy to support a "delay Local" initiative, if that also means there a delay on your turrets when performing a criminal act. How's that for fair?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Solecist Project
#45 - 2014-06-10 20:15:52 UTC
Btw ... what types of ships do these nullseccers fly and how expensive are they really?


Why would people be too scared to undock in Hurricanes or Tempests,
which should be easily affordable for anybody living and farming out there!

One can't tell me that any afk cloaker is out there all day long.


I would simply undock and see what happens. And I would keep doing so,
to find out when he's actually NOT at the keyboard.


And I'd have other people I could ask for support! To lay out a trap!


But these people just come whine onto the forums. Maybe they whined at their CEO,
or maybe their CEO whined with them. Maybe they whined at their renting alliance.


Does anybody really think they've exhausted all their options first
and then come whining like little babies?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#46 - 2014-06-10 20:16:55 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
... drivel ...
I'm not convinced you understood my post.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Marsha Mallow
#47 - 2014-06-10 20:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsha Mallow
Solecist Project wrote:
The issue is the people, not the mechanic.
...
Marsha Mallow wrote:
blabla
Solecist Project wrote:
... Opinions are irrelevant.

Nope. What winds people up is their inability to undock and play the game. They don't realize that it's their own choice,
but instead believe the cloaker is making the choice for them. Yet, there is nothing forcing them to stay docked.

You're having the wrong perspective here. People aren't mad about the person sitting there,
they are mad about the IDEA that they can not undock, because of the POSSIBILITY of losing their shiny!

It's a matter of choice! (argueable, because they're cowards and the choice seems rather pre-determined by that fact)

Cowards will always stay docked!

I'm glad you responded like this, particularly the blabla bit. Now we understand one another.

Go build up a corp, do hundreds of recruitment checks, move, mentor and train people, take it out out of highsec, join an alliance, build a station personally which you raised funds for in under 3 days, install it yourself, spend hundreds of hours in sov warfare, settup defensive home system fleets, pour your time and energy into something fundamentally broken. Do it for several years.

Then explain to me why it's safer, more profitable and convenient for players to make ISK (either via PVE or Industry) in Empire. Despite the fact they just worked to acquire sov in null, rather than just flying to the nearest agent in highsec. You can also explain why most of nullsec has been drawn into blocs and is unable to break out. And while you're at it Sol, you can explain to me how other than regurgitating forum rhetoric, you have a balanced view on this, or indeed any working knowledge. I've AFK cloaked systems myself for various reasons, but I know an exploit when I see one and this has always been one.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-06-10 20:20:18 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
I will vote for this (redundant) idea on one condition;

I can have a skill which also allows me to appear in local in systems Im not actually in

Can this work in wormhole systems too?

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Solecist Project
#49 - 2014-06-10 20:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Marsha Mallow wrote:
... ragetext ...
lol


I don't really see how this is relevant to the whining folk
who chose not to undock, because of a threat that can be dealt with.


And I also don't see the whole alliances involved in this,
like you seem to think they are.

It's not thousands of people complaining about afk cloaking.


It's surely, also, not thousands of people not playing in NullSec,
because of afk cloaking.


If this would be the case, then they don't deserve living there anyway.
Which they aren't. Which is quite sad, but their choice.



Who do you think is it, that is actually whining about afk cloakers?
What type of player does it?


Surely not literally everybody.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#50 - 2014-06-10 20:29:56 UTC
AFK cloaking thread # 32,168.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Solecist Project
#51 - 2014-06-10 20:31:35 UTC
Hell, these forums are a timewaster when stoned.

Well, they always are, tbh.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#52 - 2014-06-10 20:33:39 UTC
ah yay one of my fac topics...

afk cloaking.

fixes?

1. get rid of local

2. make non covert ops cloaks emit tachions which can be scanned out when enough have been emited by the ship.


also to make a mini game out of hunting cloaks on grid add a new tech II desi which can ping cloaked ships which will cause them to show up on the overview for 2 seconds the ships cannot be targeted but can be set to approach. the ping pings about ever 40 seconds and is limited to one per ship. Multiple pings cancel each other out and make it so cloaked ships do not show up on overview. Ping goes in a 30km radius emmiting from the ship.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Marsha Mallow
#53 - 2014-06-10 20:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsha Mallow
Solecist Project wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
... ragetext ...

The mechanic is annoying, but I'm not all that enraged about it.

I was more entertained watching you fall into these verbal traps like an athlete. You don't need forum-fu to trip someone up with a major attitude problem, particularly when they display visible ignorance. But now that you've flashed the less than pleasing aspects to your attitude I hope people take your frivolous upskirt threads in context.

xxx

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Solecist Project
#54 - 2014-06-10 20:50:08 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
... ragetext ...

The mechanic is annoying, but I'm not all that enraged about it.

I was more entertained watching you fall into these verbal traps like an athlete. You don't need forum-fu to trip someone up with a major attitude problem, particularly when they display visible ignorance. But now that you've flashed the less than pleasing aspects to your attitude I hope people take your frivolous upskirt threads in context.

xxx
Wow! You tell me that I have an attitude problem. That's hilarious!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Marsha Mallow
#55 - 2014-06-10 20:54:29 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Wow! You tell me that I have an attitude problem. That's hilarious!

I know Bear

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Solecist Project
#56 - 2014-06-10 20:55:40 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Wow! You tell me that I have an attitude problem. That's hilarious!

I know Bear
<3 (:

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#57 - 2014-06-10 20:57:03 UTC
Oh btw, during my smoke I came up with an hilarious solution to this.


CCP puts "afk cloaking" onto the same level as harrassment,
unless people demand money from those they afk cloak.


Publicly, in local.


Like ... I don't know ... 10 Million ISK?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#58 - 2014-06-10 20:58:18 UTC
And people could consolidate into one entity ...




... and they could call it ...






... wait for it .......













The New Order of NullSec!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#59 - 2014-06-10 20:59:03 UTC
If the "afk cloaker" is actually afk, then he is by definition unable to actually kill you, or hurt you in any way.

If he's not afk, then he is legitimately hunting you.

Neither of those things are a problem. The only "problem" is caused by your risk aversion. And there is no reason to change anything about the game based on you getting the shivers if there is a non-blue in local.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#60 - 2014-06-10 21:01:07 UTC
AFK cloakers are like bogieman... harmless, invisible and once you grow up you stop being afraid of them.