These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Crius] Research feedback

First post First post
Author
Valterra Craven
#21 - 2014-06-10 17:07:10 UTC
Greyscale, are bpcs that are having their max runs upped getting changed in the patch too?

Aka if the max run before was 5 and gets changed to 10, after patch will they still be 5 or will they get 5 additional runs?
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2014-06-10 17:08:51 UTC
Axe Coldon wrote:
IF you are increasing the ME +2 of base invented bpc's and are increasing the materials to compensate for less waste, will you be converting existing t2 bpc's on July22.

And if you increase the materials of existing t2 bpc.s will you alter the ME to match..though I wonder if I am asking a dumb question and it doesn't matter if the end result is the same.


Existing BPCs should be converted in a sensible way, yes.

Valterra Craven wrote:
Greyscale, are bpcs that are having their max runs upped getting changed in the patch too?

Aka if the max run before was 5 and gets changed to 10, after patch will they still be 5 or will they get 5 additional runs?


I believe the only things we're changing max runs on are T1 blueprints, and given that max runs are no longer required for invention, there's no obvious reason to give people extra free runs during the transition :)
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#23 - 2014-06-10 17:58:10 UTC
Some quick feedback:


  1. Possible bug. When trying to copy a BPO try to type an insanely high number of runs per copy. The total time will adjust for that insane amount, but the UI will reset the number to the maximum allowed runs per copy without adjusting the number accordingly. End result is either a timer that shows that the total job will take much longer than it will...or the job will take too long (I haven't tried to actually start the copying job yet).
  2. (Posted this in the UI thread as well in case it is a UI bug.)

  3. A BPO with ME 10 has the attribute "wastage factor" of 0.9%. Not sure if this is old crap, but it corresponds nicely to how much waste an "old ME 10" would have.

  4. Applying a team with bonus to destroyer ME does not change my mineral consumption at all for my Coercer BPO at ME 10. Is there a hard limit at 10% that hasn't been mentioned?
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2014-06-10 18:02:13 UTC
- Bug noted, thanks
- Show info hasn't been updated yet, expect it to be wrong (like the Gila)
- I don't believe there's any cap there, not sure why that is not working.
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#25 - 2014-06-10 18:08:18 UTC
To check if the numbers on Sisi are roughly correct I took my ME 10 Coercer on Sisi and compared it with TQ numbers today.

http://i.imgur.com/AQS0tXl.png

Seems like my ME 10 Coercer consumes more material than an old ME 0 that had 10% waste. :D
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#26 - 2014-06-10 18:12:00 UTC
Ereshgikal wrote:
To check if the numbers on Sisi are roughly correct I took my ME 10 Coercer on Sisi and compared it with TQ numbers today.

http://i.imgur.com/AQS0tXl.png

Seems like my ME 10 Coercer consumes more material than an old ME 0 that had 10% waste. :D



Uhm, the BPO shows the numbers above, BUT the new UI shows the correct amount of consumed materials when taking ME into account. So maybe it is down to "show info" giving old info? :)
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#27 - 2014-06-10 18:13:40 UTC
Ereshgikal wrote:
Some quick feedback:


  1. -

  2. -

  3. Applying a team with bonus to destroyer ME does not change my mineral consumption at all for my Coercer BPO at ME 10. Is there a hard limit at 10% that hasn't been mentioned?


The team's bonus is applied on the material showing in the new UI, but the ME/TE numbers on the righth-hand side of the BPO is not updating to reflect them.
Qoi
Exert Force
#28 - 2014-06-10 18:19:56 UTC
ME/TE Research Times are extremely wrong, a rank 1 Blueprint currently takes 38 days to fully research, instead of 3. (I also understand what is going wrong, basically you are adding the numbers, both in terms of runs (instead of subtracting them) and in terms of levels (instead of only taking the number for the highest research level), which then produces some extremely big numbers) The research time for ME 0% -> ME 1% or TE 0% -> TE 2% is calculated correctly though and exactly as described in greyscale's draft 4 CSV file, only higher run numbers are broken.

Checks against the account balance are always done against the active corp wallet, even if you are doing personal research.

You can't drag & drop blueprints into the industry window.

For short jobs the countdown is always 00:00:00:00.

Earlier i had the material quote in the show info be off by several percent, now it is showing them correctly. I think it got corrected once i put the blueprint in the industry window itself, which always showed the correct material amounts. (And exactly the same as my software, which has been updated with the announced changes to material amounts, which is nice)

(Given that the show info window has calculated the material quote incorrectly for at least 5 years now, maybe it is a nice tradition to keep Big smile )

http://eve-industry.org

Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-06-10 18:23:25 UTC
Qoi wrote:
ME/TE Research Times are extremely wrong,


Oh good, I was afraid that a thrasher BPO would seriously take 5 years to fully researchRoll
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-06-10 19:02:29 UTC
For many of my component bpos for tech 2 production, they have perfect ME researched levels before the patch, at ME levels between 1, 2, 4, and 8, but after the patch, they do not have perfect ME trained up anymore, and require further research to continue to be optimized.

Is this intended, or a small oversight? It seems like a relatively simple blanket fix to just tech 2 component and capital component bpos to adjust any that are above ME 0 to ME 10 after the patch, instead of doing a case by case. Otherwise, for many producers that have no wasted research on their component sets, we're going to have to research up hundreds of bpos after the patch that are currently perfect.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-06-10 19:18:16 UTC
(Probably all) T2 Blueprints, original and copy, require the T1 item 2 times. This is about to be adjusted, right?

(and may have been reported elsewhere already?)

NPEISDRIP

CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2014-06-10 19:22:58 UTC
Ereshgikal wrote:
Ereshgikal wrote:
To check if the numbers on Sisi are roughly correct I took my ME 10 Coercer on Sisi and compared it with TQ numbers today.

http://i.imgur.com/AQS0tXl.png

Seems like my ME 10 Coercer consumes more material than an old ME 0 that had 10% waste. :D



Uhm, the BPO shows the numbers above, BUT the new UI shows the correct amount of consumed materials when taking ME into account. So maybe it is down to "show info" giving old info? :)


Correct, show infos are displaying old information. You should use the new industry UI to get the correct updated numbers for now.

We will update the Show Info on SiSi soon(ish).

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2014-06-10 19:23:37 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
(Probably all) T2 Blueprints, original and copy, require the T1 item 2 times. This is about to be adjusted, right?

(and may have been reported elsewhere already?)


Yeah this is a known issue, we will get it fixed shortly.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#34 - 2014-06-10 19:53:20 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
(Probably all) T2 Blueprints, original and copy, require the T1 item 2 times. This is about to be adjusted, right?

(and may have been reported elsewhere already?)


Yeah this is a known issue, we will get it fixed shortly.


Quote:
-- T2 items currently require 2x the T1 item; this is incorrect and will be fixed soon


:)
Angelina Duvolle
Homeworld Technologies
#35 - 2014-06-10 19:55:36 UTC
This might be normal for the test server, so I am not sure it is even an issue or not. All bpo my corp had in research at towers are gone? I know their are no towers on sisi, but I figured those bpo would drop back into corp hangars?

Regards
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-06-10 20:09:06 UTC
Angelina Duvolle wrote:
This might be normal for the test server, so I am not sure it is even an issue or not. All bpo my corp had in research at towers are gone? I know their are no towers on sisi, but I figured those bpo would drop back into corp hangars?

Regards


Normal for test server
Theng Hofses
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2014-06-10 20:32:06 UTC
Is the 10 run old BPC to 1 run new BPC intended?
peroxide chase
Os Group
#38 - 2014-06-10 20:56:47 UTC  |  Edited by: peroxide chase
Went to see how the changes impacted existing T2 BPO's and it looks really wrong(only checked with an ishtar)?


first screen shot shows : http://i.imgur.com/FUzC34k.jpg
-TL/newPL is showing greater than 10, build time over 40% higher than live(unless t2 production time across the board are being increased)
- verified above with other T2 BPOS such as Berserker II BPO, its build time is under its copy time, seems like TE is on a 1-20 scale and not 1-10? build times are also higher than live.
-Copy time is not 80% less than build time, is greater than build times.
-max copy's is set to one for ships, intentional limit? all t2 module,ammo and drone BPO's are set to 10.

second screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/k9mtAln.jpg
- all material requirement are roughly 50% higher than live, is this related to the 1.5x change, will it apply to BPO's?
- not all materials are represented, nocxium got left out.
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#39 - 2014-06-10 21:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ereshgikal
peroxide chase wrote:

second screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/k9mtAln.jpg
- all material requirement are roughly 50% higher than live, is this related to the 1.5x change, will it apply to BPO's?
- not all materials are represented, nocxium got left out.


Yes, I certainly hope it would be applied to T2 BPOs as well. Would be quite interesting to have ME 5 mean different things for BPC and BPO.

Nerf those T2 BPOs into the ground so they are only slightly better than invention.

Edit: Finished that sentence (again, **** this interface that loses my changed when I press "post")
Throwaway Sam Atild
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2014-06-10 22:49:30 UTC
Spun up SISI and tried to invent out of a design lab. I wasn't able to select an output, or none came up. Was using 10mn afterburner bpc, as I had some lieing around. All mats in the appropriate slot, and everything blue up to the end. Might just be user error, but if so, the system is pretty non-intuitive.

Past that, I see that having the actual TTM in front of me confirms my maths on the matter. Module TTM is getting a huge shrink. So while the interface changes seem positive and intuitive, the incentive to actually build modules is probably going to disappear!

I really hope you guys will take another look at what you're doing to the amount of work available globally before finalizing the numbers.

Something like multiplying module demand at market (which shouldn't be affected by changes) by the TTM hours. I really don't think it makes sense for my small production corporation to be able to supply all of the adaptive invul II's used in the entire game without breaking a sweat... I think concerns of a labor shortage aren't going to be very well founded, considering that any shortage of labor will pump up the pay-check for builders and create a natural incentive for more to enter the field.

At the very least, please feel open to liberally revisiting TTM and changing it aggressively as needed. Its my opinion that the TTM stat is going to be the most directly linked to the amount of people who use production in New Eden, and that with the Crius changes you've got it tuned down to 3. Pump that sucker up to 11!