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RLML Caracal Killer
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BA Rooster
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-06-10 13:21:02 UTC
In the Assault frig line, what would stand the best chance of catching and killing a RLML Caracal?

- dual rep Vengeance (or possibly single rep with higher resist mods)

- Dual MASB Jag

- Other?
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#2 - 2014-06-10 14:31:22 UTC
Any AF will work reasonably well if he has the ammo loaded that is your highest resist, i.e. Scourge vs. Enyo, Mjiolnir vs. Wolf. Most RLML Caracal pilots won't want to spend the 35 seconds reloading to the appropriate ammo swap.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Mattias Uta
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-06-10 14:52:59 UTC
ASB is probably a good counter to the rapid launcher, as you know you have a long 'safe' period during the reload, so you can time your ASB to be reloading when you know its not going to be needed.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2014-06-10 14:55:42 UTC
Mattias Uta wrote:
ASB is probably a good counter to the rapid launcher, as you know you have a long 'safe' period during the reload, so you can time your ASB to be reloading when you know its not going to be needed.


You are severely underestimating the amount of burst a rlml caracal puts out.

Generally unless you are using links or maybe HG implants a rlml caracal will eat any frigate.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

BA Rooster
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-06-10 14:57:24 UTC
Speed and damage mitigation will be a must , so I am not sure that just any AF would work. The new Worm may work as it has great speed and good DPS, but damage mitigation would be much lower and resist are not as good as the AF's.

I think this will be a niche set of frigs that even have a ghost of a chance.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#6 - 2014-06-10 14:57:38 UTC
Load up on as much damage as you can and then unleash hell. Caracals are paper thin, even with all the fitting saved by downsizing their launchers. An Enyo will shred one and has excellent base resists. Use a small nos if you are able, since you don't want to risk your guns turning off.
BA Rooster
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-06-10 15:04:04 UTC
I don't think an Enyo would be quick enough nor mitigate enough damage to reach its target before it died. The Vengeance may be too flow as well but has resist across the board to manage the damage. Would take it a while to kill a dual LSE Caracal.

The Jag may be quick enough and be able to rep the damage with two MASBs.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#8 - 2014-06-10 15:24:25 UTC
Instead of trying to tank it, maybe consider damping/jamming it to the point where it can't target you?

RLML Caracals are downright scary to pretty much any frigate hull, especially if they have damage application rigs.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#9 - 2014-06-10 15:26:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Maeltstome
[Enyo, PVP]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Explosive Plating II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small 'Knave' Energy Drain

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Hobgoblin II x1

2400m/s, 8kish EHP with another 4k from the repper. At full speed you mitigate >65% of the caracals damage. Infact you could rep all the damage while orbitting with MWD and staying HP neutral for about 30 seconds (long enough for him to waste a lot of missiles).
BA Rooster
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-06-10 15:28:49 UTC
Damps are a possibility until you get inside of about 20 then you get beat to death.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#11 - 2014-06-10 15:30:43 UTC
You wont win a fight with damps either. Unless you have a dedicated damp ship smashing his scan res to prevent relocks.
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-06-10 16:28:22 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
[Enyo, PVP]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Explosive Plating II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small 'Knave' Energy Drain

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Hobgoblin II x1

2400m/s, 8kish EHP with another 4k from the repper. At full speed you mitigate >65% of the caracals damage. Infact you could rep all the damage while orbitting with MWD and staying HP neutral for about 30 seconds (long enough for him to waste a lot of missiles).


An MWDing Enyo might not be able to orbit near enough to properly hit with Void, I am afraid. It will definately be a veeeery close call but any frig that takes on a RLML Caracal will most likely die, unless you use some crazy linked/boosted one.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#13 - 2014-06-10 16:51:57 UTC
Charlie Firpol wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
[Enyo, PVP]

Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Explosive Plating II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small 'Knave' Energy Drain

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Hobgoblin II x1

2400m/s, 8kish EHP with another 4k from the repper. At full speed you mitigate >65% of the caracals damage. Infact you could rep all the damage while orbitting with MWD and staying HP neutral for about 30 seconds (long enough for him to waste a lot of missiles).


An MWDing Enyo might not be able to orbit near enough to properly hit with Void, I am afraid. It will definately be a veeeery close call but any frig that takes on a RLML Caracal will most likely die, unless you use some crazy linked/boosted one.


You aren't understanding the premise here. This isn't a point blank slug fest: Most RLML Caracals will take a frigate fight any time, you try to stay out of scram range until you run out of rep-paste in your repper. That'll take about 30-40 seconds. if he's chasing you, straight line speed will maxed out (and the occasional overheat just to increase mitigation even more).

If you see he is using Kinetic, Thermal or EM missiles then you can ignore the whole kiting element and hit approach, load void, web/scram/MWD-OFF and kill him. If he's using explosive missiles he'll run dry in 60 seconds of firing, half his load of missiles will do around 8-9k Effective damage, if you can outlast the first half of his load then your chances of wining increase to near 100% (Assuming no interference).

The point is, worst case scenario, if you start the fight with full armor and him with half his Missiles already fired (which is entirely possible) you will win. You just have to make sure you either:

A) Have higher enough resistance against his missile damage type to rep through it (Therm/Kin)
or
B) Have kited the first 10 missles while repping the reduced damage.

If you achieve this, he will have 30 seconds of DPS (not enough to kill you) and then another 35 seconds of reload. Thats over a minute and byt this point you have killed his shield HP.

You could even fit Rail's and cap regen to MWD kite the damage while picking off his shields. Caracal blobs blow frigs up, but they are still paper thin ships. I'd rate my chances against a caracal while in a frig better than my chances against a thorax.
Elusive Panda
Void Covenant
The Initiative.
#14 - 2014-06-10 17:08:54 UTC
Dual MASB Hawk can survive a clip of RLML, ASB reloads a bit slower than RLML, so the second clip will probably kill you.

Basically, if he's firing Inferno or Scourge missile, you stand a good chance of winning, EM or Explo, you will most likely die.

(Unless you want to bring links and/or crystals and/or blue pill, then you can pretty much kill whatever you want in a Hawk)
BA Rooster
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-06-10 17:42:54 UTC
I could probably warm up to your Enyo fit with the MagField swapped for an ENAM and the web for a cap booster. Drops by 60 DPS but gains significant tank and resist.

Maybe even swap the SAAR for a dead space repper.

This is where I wonder if a similarly fit Vengeance has a better chance. 110 les DPS but better range and stronger rep.
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-06-11 06:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Luwc
I'd go with a buffer + ASB

Don't underestimate what the small ASB can add . This thing tanks like a ***** :

[Hawk, CRUISERKILLER]
Internal Force Field Array I
Ballistic Control System II

1MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Extender II
Small Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 25
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Barrage S

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

You can add some bluepill for the little extra.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#17 - 2014-06-11 08:54:16 UTC
Should the Caracal pilot have missile application implants, use Crash boosters, and/ or use rigor or flare rigs over shield rigs then sig tanking the damage may be a bit optimistic.

I prefer the RLML Bellicose over the Caracal tbh. My fit with two overheated target painters will apply full damage to an unlinked Enyo that isn't traveling faster then 5206 m/s.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#18 - 2014-06-11 12:14:40 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Should the Caracal pilot have missile application implants, use Crash boosters, and/ or use rigor or flare rigs over shield rigs then sig tanking the damage may be a bit optimistic.

I prefer the RLML Bellicose over the Caracal tbh. My fit with two overheated target painters will apply full damage to an unlinked Enyo that isn't traveling faster then 5206 m/s.


Yes, they can fit those. Sacrificing tanking rigs though. Remeber an Enyo does post 300DPS... you NEED buffer. Most assault frigs are the same.

Also remember that you pulse the MWD, so your sig deflates while you are still moving at high speeds as a volley hits. Once you drop to below 1500ish you put it back on again. Little things like this make a big different when you are in a fight against a ship with only 20 charges of offence to shoot you with..

Again, not saying it's clean cut. i'm saying the Caracal can't AFK kill you by activate all modules if you play it properly.
BA Rooster
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-06-11 13:35:24 UTC
Luwc wrote:
I'd go with a buffer + ASB

Don't underestimate what the small ASB can add . This thing tanks like a ***** :

[Hawk, CRUISERKILLER]
Internal Force Field Array I
Ballistic Control System II

1MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Extender II
Small Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 25
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Barrage S

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

You can add some bluepill for the little extra.


That Hawk could not catch a good cold much less a Caracal. And Small ASB. I hope you are trolling.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#20 - 2014-06-12 12:18:16 UTC
BA Rooster wrote:
Luwc wrote:
I'd go with a buffer + ASB

Don't underestimate what the small ASB can add . This thing tanks like a ***** :

[Hawk, CRUISERKILLER]
Internal Force Field Array I
Ballistic Control System II

1MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Extender II
Small Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 25
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Barrage S

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

You can add some bluepill for the little extra.


That Hawk could not catch a good cold much less a Caracal. And Small ASB. I hope you are trolling.


Too many scrubs with AB's hoping tat they don't get kited by a condor.
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