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[Crius] Reprocessing feedback

First post First post
Author
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-06-10 13:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Hello people,

With Singularity open for feedback we would like to hear what you have to say about the new features coming for Crius. This particular thread is to discuss reprocessing changes, mainly:


  • Reprocessing skill and formula changes
  • Compression changes
  • Reprocessing UI changes


For more details, please refer to this particular blog. Starbase improvements will be discussed in another thread.
Sales Alt negrodamus
Sanctuary of Shadows
#2 - 2014-06-10 14:14:14 UTC
Alright, I'll start.

* Reprocessing shows a bonus from scrapmetal processing, and I don't have that skill.

Its' kinda unclear if you don't realize how the multipliers work. I'd suggest simply not showing it at all.
Vicar2008
MCMLXXVI
#3 - 2014-06-10 14:32:49 UTC
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:
Alright, I'll start.

* Reprocessing shows a bonus from scrapmetal processing, and I don't have that skill.

Its' kinda unclear if you don't realize how the multipliers work. I'd suggest simply not showing it at all.


Or show your current skills are contributing corretly so you have an idea what you may want to train up more etc to get better multiplyers?
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2014-06-10 14:53:52 UTC
Vicar2008 wrote:
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:
Alright, I'll start.

* Reprocessing shows a bonus from scrapmetal processing, and I don't have that skill.

Its' kinda unclear if you don't realize how the multipliers work. I'd suggest simply not showing it at all.


Or show your current skills are contributing corretly so you have an idea what you may want to train up more etc to get better multiplyers?


we decided to have the skill in the list even if you don't have it so you could see it and think "oh hey, I should train that skill!"

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Darkblad
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-06-10 15:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
No copy paste functionaliy for entries in the reprocessing offer window Sad

Also:
If I remember correctly, a block of compressed ore is made of a batch of the raw ore (100 units).
Now let's take Arkonor as an example (the batch got added 1275 Units of Mexallon as announced in the Fortune favors the bold Devblog)
Here's the minerals of a batch, the quantites are from left to right
6905 x Tritanium,
1275 x Mexallon
115 x Zydrine
230 x Megacyte

On Sisi, however, one unit of compressed Arkonor contains
7672 Tritanium
1420 Mexallon
128 Zydrine
256 Megacyte

Roughly 111 % of the minerals of a batch.

And the blueprints for compressed [whatever] are still present in the market

Same applies to ice, like Thick blue Ice
Compressed stuff also contains roughly 111 % of the raw ice.

NPEISDRIP

Saint Michaels Soul
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#6 - 2014-06-10 16:11:57 UTC
The blog doesn't mention being able to switch to another method of viewing the inputs and outputs, specifically in textual/list format.

This looks like it's forcing me to use icons, rather than use the text list view that I prefer (due to actually liking the "spreadsheets in space" look) in my inventory. Not a problem if you can't switch, I'll just have to learn to use the icon view.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-06-10 16:13:00 UTC
Man, the art team really phone it in on the new reprocessing button eh.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#8 - 2014-06-10 16:16:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Irregessa
I reprocessed 100K units of veldspar in a Reprocessing array. Reprocessing 5, Reprocessing Efficiency 5, Veldspar Processing 4. I got 53% efficiency (220K out of 415K contained in the ore).

Something is not right here.

Tried it again using a 4% refining implant, got the exact same amount of tritanium back as without.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-06-10 16:41:52 UTC
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:
Alright, I'll start.

* Reprocessing shows a bonus from scrapmetal processing, and I don't have that skill.

Its' kinda unclear if you don't realize how the multipliers work. I'd suggest simply not showing it at all.


Eve is a game designed for intelligent individuals, if every thing that might confuse some people were hidden, it'd quickly become a very dumbed down and frustrating to use game. Seeing possible options like this laid out for you not only shows players what else they can train for increased efficiency without having to refer to external sites, but shows that there IS something that they could train up to increase that efficiency. As such, I think Eve players are better as a whole with it there, and some individuals being confused, and asking.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-06-10 16:52:49 UTC
Darkblad wrote:


Also:
If I remember correctly, a block of compressed ore is made of a batch of the raw ore (100 units).


While correct for Arkonor and a couple others, this is incorrect for most other ores.

Compression values chart

Ore refine values

You'll notice in most cases the volume of minerals in 1 compressed ore block is not 100 units of the raw ore, so it's not safe to maintain this assumption, while it does work for your arkonor example.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#11 - 2014-06-10 16:54:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Irregessa wrote:
I reprocessed 100K units of veldspar in a Reprocessing array. Reprocessing 5, Reprocessing Efficiency 5, Veldspar Processing 4. I got 53% efficiency (220K out of 415K contained in the ore).

Something is not right here.

Tried it again using a 4% refining implant, got the exact same amount of tritanium back as without.


Confirming POS refineries are low, although I ended up with only 51.8% total yield in the POS.

Edit -- findings posted in the POS bit

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#12 - 2014-06-10 16:59:38 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
No copy paste functionaliy for entries in the reprocessing offer window Sad

Also:
If I remember correctly, a block of compressed ore is made of a batch of the raw ore (100 units).
Now let's take Arkonor as an example (the batch got added 1275 Units of Mexallon as announced in the Fortune favors the bold Devblog)
Here's the minerals of a batch, the quantites are from left to right
6905 x Tritanium,
1275 x Mexallon
115 x Zydrine
230 x Megacyte

On Sisi, however, one unit of compressed Arkonor contains
7672 Tritanium
1420 Mexallon
128 Zydrine
256 Megacyte

Roughly 111 % of the minerals of a batch.

And the blueprints for compressed [whatever] are still present in the market

Same applies to ice, like Thick blue Ice
Compressed stuff also contains roughly 111 % of the raw ice.


Thanks for pointing this out, this will be taken care of.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2014-06-10 17:05:17 UTC
Irregessa wrote:
I reprocessed 100K units of veldspar in a Reprocessing array. Reprocessing 5, Reprocessing Efficiency 5, Veldspar Processing 4. I got 53% efficiency (220K out of 415K contained in the ore).

Something is not right here.

Tried it again using a 4% refining implant, got the exact same amount of tritanium back as without.


It's not on Singularity yet, but it will be soon.

Oh yes my precious, it will.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2014-06-10 17:05:55 UTC
other than the blueprints and hard values, has the way compression on the rorqual changed at all?

I can't seem to get sisi to work...
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-06-10 17:06:51 UTC
Can we get a fresh mirror? I am sure lots of us have been skill training in preparation for this. Would love to be able to test with recent Tranq skills.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Cristl
#16 - 2014-06-10 17:26:41 UTC
I've asked this before, but I'd love an official response (and if there's a time to ask, it's now).

Almost all industrial processes in Eve require time: whether it be researching, copying, mining or building, your character has to wait it out. However, you can smelt millions of tons of ore instantly.

Isn't that both counter-intuitive and somewhat counter to general Eve principles? Most stuff is designed to take time and be faster with more corpmates involved. But the refining requirements of an entire alliance can be done by a single character.

It's weird. Let me just say that I don't want to arbitrarily increase anyone's grind, but assigning skills to tasks with instant duration is bad game design. It allows single alts to do the work of nations, and means that newbies with mediocre refining skills cannot market those skills.

Obviously refining could be set up and left while you did other things or logged off. Also, aspects such as mining, manufacturing or copying could be sped up to compensate – there's no need for the overall time to market for goods to increase.

If refining took time, there would be a refining mini-profession: more people would need to chip-in in larger corporations, and newbies with fair-to-middling refining skills could still be of use. Imagine if they could accept refining contracts from industrial big-shots and make a little extra cash while they run their level two missions. It's an MMO remember: the more interaction the better.

And if POSes then needed an extra buff to refining (over the proposed buff in Crius), who would object?

ps. If they want to combine refining and reprocessing into one word, then smelting would make more sense than reprocessing.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-06-10 17:33:35 UTC
Also a -22% ME Marauder team is hilariously overpowered.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Darkblad
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-06-10 18:02:45 UTC
Rowells wrote:
other than the blueprints and hard values, has the way compression on the rorqual changed at all?

I can't seem to get sisi to work...
The Compression Array works fine. Select something first and right click that.

(Though the presence of compression blueprints might be a hint to that it doesn't work for the Rorqual yet)

NPEISDRIP

Darkblad
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-06-10 18:02:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Edit, while I'm at it: Two compressed variants contain raw ore quantities that are no multiple of 100 pre Crius - Crokite (1250 units) and Pyroxeres (49.950 units). I didn't get to spare some on Sisi before deployment and can't test. However, adjusting the (currently wrong) quantities of compressed variants results in values a basic ore batch contains. This would mean the loss of half a batch for each block when Crius goes live - if there's no other adjustment, which I can't check myself.


Feedback to POS stuff moved

NPEISDRIP

Jinn Aideron
#20 - 2014-06-10 18:11:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jinn Aideron
  • There is no multi-selection in reprocessing window. -- You are presented with very nice visual clues, warning signs, etc. When you then want to ACT on these, you have so select,right-click,remove every single element on its own!
  • Allow us to DRAG things out of the window for 'remove', just as we now drag them in to 'add'.

When I picture this window in its finished state: awesome! Big smile Can't wait.

Stealth deletes are bad.

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