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Need some insighs: why can't we set up a clone re spawn into a WH?

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Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#1 - 2014-06-10 03:29:26 UTC
wormhole space is dangerous, but at the same time C1 to C4 seem to be great frontiers space to explore and possible settle for solo players or small corporations...

Now, looking form the perspective of a potential WH denizen, and considering the pros and cons to deploy my assets there, there is one important draw back to WH: if you die, you will re spawn in a station somewhere outside of your WH. Sometime, the logistic to get you back in will be really difficult, as it involves keeping scanning alts, identifying and bookmarking exits and k162 without dying, and bringing back your main back there though likely dangerous territories.

What are the design reasons behind this choice?

I am not asking to change it, just to understand the design choices made there.

I can say that at that stage, as a WH explorer looking to become a WH dweller, this is one of the main thing that makes me hesitate to commit all my assets to a WH home...


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Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#2 - 2014-06-10 03:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik
The reasoning is that you can become space rich beyond your wildest dreams if you go to W-Space. Compared to what you can get there, podding back to highsec is a minor annoyance.Twisted

It's not that the space is much richer than 0.0 space for example - players are rich because alliances are not holding everything valuable (read moon goo, industry slots, market monopoly, POS monopoly,...) like in 0.0 . In W-Space you get what you work for.

edit: Just to be more clear, it's risk vs reward concept that I was talking about Blink
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2014-06-10 04:04:44 UTC
Saisin wrote:
What are the design reasons behind this choice?

The idea was to make living in w-space require a commitment, rather than being able to clone-jump in and out freely.

Please don't make me find the dev posts. That was 2009.
Brendan Anneto
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#4 - 2014-06-10 04:20:48 UTC
just use a rorqual with a clone vat installed in it.
Then you should be able to pod jump into your WH.

I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your terror comes, When your terror comes like a storm, And your destruction comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you.   Proverbs 1:26-27
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-06-10 04:21:53 UTC
What you are looking for is called a rorqual.
Serene Repose
#6 - 2014-06-10 04:49:34 UTC
Okay. Set your clone up in wormhole space. When it collapses, promise you'll roll another toon, and regale us with the wisdom you obtained through experience. I think it's okay.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#7 - 2014-06-10 04:53:26 UTC
Grunanca wrote:
What you are looking for is called a rorqual.

My understanding is that rorqual vat clone bay does not work in WH.
Furthermore, the rorqual mass would limit it to the higher end WH which usually are full of vets, and bigger gangs so are way more dangerous for solo or small group ventures...

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Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-06-10 04:56:04 UTC
The reasons are that WH's were not designed with long term habitation in mind. Living in one is not supposed to be easy or safe.

That being said it is also not competely unique. Take other parts of eve, such as the Great Wildlands region. In all of that region there are only 3 systems with stations to set your medical clone.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-06-10 04:57:08 UTC
Because the difficulty of living in a WH is the point. Its supposed to be a pain in the ass.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#10 - 2014-06-10 05:07:25 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Saisin wrote:
What are the design reasons behind this choice?

The idea was to make living in w-space require a commitment, rather than being able to clone-jump in and out freely.
.

I am not talking about clone jumping, I am simply talking about respawning, and updating your clone after having been podded
I am totally fine with WH being off limit for clone jumping, so that indeed living in a WH becomes a commitment.

The problem I see for a long term assets commitment is that as soon as I get attacked in a WH I would have settled, it is very likely that I will get podded and ejected out of that space. With one alt being locked up for scanning a way back in, I will never really have a chance to defend my assets by risking other ships, as I have to get back into the WH and keep my scanning alt alive and able to locate any new exit if the attackers decide to close the know WH after I died.

So I am trying to understand if the game design of not being able to respawni within a Settled WH is intended, as it is affecting a lot of decisions about settling there in the first place...

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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#11 - 2014-06-10 05:12:44 UTC
Considering the current trend to invalidate specialized ship functionality with deployables, why not just add a POS module clone vat array? Needs proteins to install and ozone to clean up after a jump.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-06-10 05:20:21 UTC
You're not meant to live permanently in w-space systems.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#13 - 2014-06-10 05:22:42 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You're not meant to live permanently in w-space systems.

When you say you, do you mean me specifically, me as a solo player, or is your you saying that nobody is meant to live permanently in WH?

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Sato Page
Auctor Illuminatas Infinitum
#14 - 2014-06-10 05:24:58 UTC
WH was not intended for long term colonization. I believe you shouldn't even be allowed to anchor POS in W-sapce.

Dinsdale Pirannha for [u]CEO [/u]of [u]CCP[/u]
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#15 - 2014-06-10 05:32:55 UTC
Sato Page wrote:
WH was not intended for long term colonization. I believe you shouldn't even be allowed to anchor POS in W-sapce.

I would agree that not being able to anchor a POS would clearly indicate an intended design for no permanent installations.

But judging by the number of active POSes I have scouted on my WH roams and the fact that I very rarely found a WH without any active POS, I can only wonder about the intended design CCP had there Big smile

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Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#16 - 2014-06-10 06:14:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You're not meant to live permanently in w-space systems.

That's true even for my RL country - you are not meant to live permanently in it... but I still do. I like challenges Pirate

Anyway, OP, disregard the naysayers above. I know several corps that were in W-Space constantly since the time wormholes were introduced and I have been recently a member of one such corp (left for RL aggro and in-game inactivity, but will come back). It is definitively possible to live permanently in W-Space if you are up to the challenge and have some friends to come along (or join a WH corp). For solo action I would rather base myself in highsec and scan WHs to farm them than colonize it alone, since your POS would be an easy target for even a small corp that wants to kick you out of your wormhole system.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#17 - 2014-06-10 06:25:00 UTC
Saisin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You're not meant to live permanently in w-space systems.

When you say you, do you mean me specifically, me as a solo player, or is your you saying that nobody is meant to live permanently in WH?

Nobody.

This is according to CCP. They were actually quite surprised at the number of people that have moved in.

FWIW, I lived in w-space about 2.75 years starting about 2 months after I started EVE; Apocrypha was released about 1 week after I started.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#18 - 2014-06-10 06:30:18 UTC
Also most permanent WH corps make use of mapping service such as http://wh-space.wiadvice.com/
a mapping software maps nothing by it self but what it does is that it allows your scouts to map routes for each wh that they pass thus leaving a road map (of book marks) for others in corp.
With a proper bookmarking scheme that matches to system names in a mapper this makes navigating "explored" wh chains a breeze.
Now obviously we didn't had corp book marks 4-5 years ago when WH's came so marking the route was something hideous.

Obviously this also means that you need people online willing to do the leg work of scanning in the blanks each day.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#19 - 2014-06-10 06:40:56 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Also most permanent WH corps make use of mapping service such as http://wh-space.wiadvice.com/
a mapping software maps nothing by it self but what it does is that it allows your scouts to map routes for each wh that they pass thus leaving a road map (of book marks) for others in corp.
With a proper bookmarking scheme that matches to system names in a mapper this makes navigating "explored" wh chains a breeze.
Now obviously we didn't had corp book marks 4-5 years ago when WH's came so marking the route was something hideous.

Obviously this also means that you need people online willing to do the leg work of scanning in the blanks each day.



I've used siggy... does pretty much the same thing. The funny part is, these tools mostly don't do anything that you can't already see in the game by looking at corp bookmarks, but it presents the information in a more natural way than a spreadsheet. Smile
Oxide Ammar
#20 - 2014-06-10 06:52:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxide Ammar
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Saisin wrote:
What are the design reasons behind this choice?

The idea was to make living in w-space require a commitment, rather than being able to clone-jump in and out freely.

Please don't make me find the dev posts. That was 2009.


As I read on forums before, CCP first intention regarding WH when they introduced them was only for exploring and ninja mining, basically it was about find WH you do your activity there and get out but CCP didn't thought people will go extreme and colonize WH, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

edit: it was answered above.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
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