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Stratios: how is it working out?
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#1 - 2014-06-09 20:47:52 UTC
When the Stratios was announced, it was supposed to be an exploration cruiser. And at that point it looked pretty good. Eve being Eve, someone was bound to point out that a cloaky cruiser with the bandwidth of an Ishtar might be utterly stupid in PvP -- and so it got dropped down to 100mbps.

At that point, I got kind of concerned. It no longer looked like a ship that could effectively run 5/10s and 6/10s, which seemed to me to be its natural match. The fact that it could pick up 3/10s and 4/10s that T3s couldn't would be nice, but those are fundamentally high sec sites (at least in my bitter eyes).

Well, I finally had my chance to test it. I didn't go cheap (though I did throw it together from what I had laying around):

[Stratios, serp low 3-5 armor]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum A-Type Energized Thermic Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Kinetic Membrane

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Dark Blood Cap Recharger

Drone Link Augmentor I
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Garde II x4
Wasp II x4
Hornet II x5
Hornet II x5
Warden II x4
Warden II x1
Garde II x1

Obviously, this was meant for Serpentis space more than anything else. I had a chance to try it out in BR and Guristas sites a bit as well.

So how'd it do?

Ok. Just ok. It can and did shred all 3/10s and 4/10s I tried (BR, Serp, and Guristas). 5/10s were dicey. I ended up abandoning a run at a Blood 5, partially due to how long it was taking and the increasing numbers in local. Serpentis went better (as expected; it's simply an easier site). The only Guristas 5 I ran across was already being run.

Most interesting, it did manage to finish a Blood 6/10 (with slight modifications after faction DDAs came out, allowing for both higher drone damage and an upgrade to Heavy Pulse IIs). The damn thing took an hour, but it did it.

My overall impressions are still rather mixed. Sure, it took on all the sites I threw it at, but the completion times for 5/10s and 6/10s were somewhere between poor and abyssmal. It really is good for the low sec 3/10 option (and of course 4/10s) but I'm not sure it's worth a profile that narrow. The new Guristas Covert Research Facility takes out maybe a third of shields when it blows so those are basically free money when you find them (and throw on a data analyzer).

The huge cargo hold is great and all, and it does allow for extended deployment. Having the mobile depot around allows you to swap around, say, and omni for a DNC on the fly, which I guess is nice. And the ship did pay for itself, albeit not as quickly as I usually like.

So now with the questions. First, does anyone else have impressions on the ship in an exploration context? Does it fit a niche anyone else likes to fill; am I being too picky demanding that it eat 6/10s alive?

Second, if the ship really is as mediocre as I think it is, is there anything that can be done to fix it that wouldn't utterly annihilate PvP balance? I tend to think not but I'd be open to other ideas.

There you go. Stratios. How's it working out for you?
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2014-06-09 21:15:42 UTC
I do pilates with mine.

Sorry, couldn't resist. At least you don't make out with yours. Lol

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2014-06-09 22:08:13 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I do pilates with mine.

Sorry, couldn't resist. At least you don't make out with yours. Lol


You're a bastard. But I totally deserved that.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-06-09 23:01:27 UTC
I stopped flying one. Anywhere that I would need a covert capable ship I can use a T3.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
stoicfaux
#5 - 2014-06-09 23:16:02 UTC
I've been thinking about it for high-sec exploration since T3s were banned. Being forced to swap ships for 3s and 4s is really annoying.



Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-06-09 23:20:32 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
I've been thinking about it for high-sec exploration since T3s were banned. Being forced to swap ships for 3s and 4s is really annoying.




What ship are you using that you can't do both with?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#7 - 2014-06-10 00:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
For the specific subset of people that are drone pilots its fine, since it can go into ded 3s which the myrmidon can't, and it has a better cloak than the navy vexor so its better at doing the first steps of an exploration pilot into lowsec - ie can do the highsec escalations into lowsec, ded 3s, ded 4s and ded 5s all in one relatively low skilled package that is a clear upgrade from all 3 of the lower boats (prophecy, navy vexor, myrmidon).

It doesn't really need a scout or other things that IMO reek of being too much bother to fit either a casual pilot looking to find a fun reward or someone trying to ramp up 1 step of risk. I did lots of serpentis ded 5s with an Ishtar, but I had a scout, and the Ishtar was less accessible it needs a lot more training.

The gurista ded 6 is still objectively more valuable than the blood ded 6, and its doable with the stratios in a far more reasonable amount of time, ie its a rather complicated question as to whether the blood ded 6 is too hard, the stratios too weak, or gurista ded 6 too easy.
stoicfaux
#8 - 2014-06-10 02:20:05 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
I've been thinking about it for high-sec exploration since T3s were banned. Being forced to swap ships for 3s and 4s is really annoying.




What ship are you using that you can't do both with?

Tengu, Caracal, Anathema, Nighthawk. Basically stuff lying around. Tengu has wrap speed, scan bonus, hacking bonus, tank, and adequate DPS. The other ships have one or two aspects.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Saraki Ishikela
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-06-10 02:33:44 UTC
I currently don't use it for combat sites, but I definitely bring it to check for Mordu's Belt rats before I scan down Relic and Data Sites..

One newbies quest to ExploreEVE: [u]Youtube[/u]: www.youtube.com/exploreeve - **[u]**Blogspot:[/u] http://exploreeve.blogspot.com [u]Twitter:[/u] www.twitter.com/exploreeve** - [u]Facebook[/u]:** www.facebook.com/exploreeve
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2014-06-10 04:00:55 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
The gurista ded 6 is still objectively more valuable than the blood ded 6, and its doable with the stratios in a far more reasonable amount of time, ie its a rather complicated question as to whether the blood ded 6 is too hard, the stratios too weak, or gurista ded 6 too easy.


You're not entirely wrong, but I think it's more straightforward than you make it here. Guristas 6/10 is the easiest and BR 6/10 is generally the second easiest. I'd have taken the test fit into a Guristas 6/10 without hesitation and I tried the Blood site because a) it was there and b) I know that site really, really well. Since the fit struggled so much, I'm quite sure the Sansha 6 is off limits and the Serpentis 6 was never really a question. Angels I'd have to try to know for sure.

In any case, that's two or maybe three 6/10s that are viable. The others aren't. The fact that the highest and tied-lowest payouts are the two it can do for sure is an incidental feature of balance for this discussion even if it's peripherally interesting.
Dato Koppla
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#11 - 2014-06-10 05:37:10 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
The gurista ded 6 is still objectively more valuable than the blood ded 6, and its doable with the stratios in a far more reasonable amount of time, ie its a rather complicated question as to whether the blood ded 6 is too hard, the stratios too weak, or gurista ded 6 too easy.


You're not entirely wrong, but I think it's more straightforward than you make it here. Guristas 6/10 is the easiest and BR 6/10 is generally the second easiest. I'd have taken the test fit into a Guristas 6/10 without hesitation and I tried the Blood site because a) it was there and b) I know that site really, really well. Since the fit struggled so much, I'm quite sure the Sansha 6 is off limits and the Serpentis 6 was never really a question. Angels I'd have to try to know for sure.

In any case, that's two or maybe three 6/10s that are viable. The others aren't. The fact that the highest and tied-lowest payouts are the two it can do for sure is an incidental feature of balance for this discussion even if it's peripherally interesting.


Yeah the Guristas 6/10 is a joke, it's has very few rats compared to other sites, minimal EW and yet drops one of the most valuable items for DEDS (A-type Invuln). Even the Guristas 5/10 is harder than the 6. Angels 6/10 can get quite dicey especially trying to blitz the structure in the last room, I'd imagine it would be quite brutal on an armor tanked Stratios.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#12 - 2014-06-10 08:41:17 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
The gurista ded 6 is still objectively more valuable than the blood ded 6, and its doable with the stratios in a far more reasonable amount of time, ie its a rather complicated question as to whether the blood ded 6 is too hard, the stratios too weak, or gurista ded 6 too easy.


You're not entirely wrong, but I think it's more straightforward than you make it here. Guristas 6/10 is the easiest and BR 6/10 is generally the second easiest. I'd have taken the test fit into a Guristas 6/10 without hesitation and I tried the Blood site because a) it was there and b) I know that site really, really well. Since the fit struggled so much, I'm quite sure the Sansha 6 is off limits and the Serpentis 6 was never really a question. Angels I'd have to try to know for sure.

In any case, that's two or maybe three 6/10s that are viable. The others aren't. The fact that the highest and tied-lowest payouts are the two it can do for sure is an incidental feature of balance for this discussion even if it's peripherally interesting.


Yeah the Guristas 6/10 is a joke, it's has very few rats compared to other sites, minimal EW and yet drops one of the most valuable items for DEDS (A-type Invuln). Even the Guristas 5/10 is harder than the 6. Angels 6/10 can get quite dicey especially trying to blitz the structure in the last room, I'd imagine it would be quite brutal on an armor tanked Stratios.


Ded 5s are available from highsec escalations, ie as an overall package its a little trickier than "its harder than the ded 6", since if you know where to find bulk dens, you can probably have an escalation to a ded 5 every 2 hours and that's a much safer thing both to farm or enter than either rally point farming or entering a public ded 6 signature. Not necessarily a bad thing if the encounter isn't easy.

Honestly the stratios if you fit it specifically for ded 5s escalation farming (which Zhilia hasn't), is probably the best single-boat package in the game for the task since it can fuss free commute to different spots that have dens piled up whether or not those are islands, and then it can commute to the location of escalation in lowsec, with nil ammunition requirements - just need a depot (well not really) a couple of spare damage amps, 2 geckos spare (so you can semi afk farm) and a couple of tank mods.

Proteus is a big ugly bundle of parts that don't fit easily. I put up with it because I want the nullifier for nullsec.

In hindsight (and if I let my ego run wild) its like CCP read how I solved this problem (cart ishtars and vexors to locations in low and highsec islands with a viator and then fly to them with a helios), and removed all the irrititating logistics standing between risk averse bears and b-type loot and pirate cruiser bpcs.
Herni Isimazu
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-06-10 17:06:45 UTC
Taurano wrote:

Honestly the stratios if you fit it specifically for ded 5s escalation farming (which Zhilia hasn't), is probably the best single-boat package in the game for the task since it can fuss free commute to different spots that have dens piled up whether or not those are islands, and then it can commute to the location of escalation in lowsec, with nil ammunition requirements - just need a depot (well not really) a couple of spare damage amps, 2 geckos spare (so you can semi afk farm) and a couple of tank mods.

Proteus is a big ugly bundle of parts that don't fit easily. I put up with it because I want the nullifier for nullsec.

In hindsight (and if I let my ego run wild) its like CCP read how I solved this problem (cart ishtars and vexors to locations in low and highsec islands with a viator and then fly to them with a helios), and removed all the irrititating logistics standing between risk averse bears and b-type loot and pirate cruiser bpcs.


I'd be very interested in your fit if you're willing to share it, though I kind of assume it's out of my budget.
Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#14 - 2014-06-10 18:09:27 UTC
Honestly sounds ok for a T1 pirate faction cruiser that is covert.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2014-06-10 18:51:47 UTC
Herni Isimazu wrote:
Taurano wrote:

Honestly the stratios if you fit it specifically for ded 5s escalation farming (which Zhilia hasn't), is probably the best single-boat package in the game for the task since it can fuss free commute to different spots that have dens piled up whether or not those are islands, and then it can commute to the location of escalation in lowsec, with nil ammunition requirements - just need a depot (well not really) a couple of spare damage amps, 2 geckos spare (so you can semi afk farm) and a couple of tank mods.

Proteus is a big ugly bundle of parts that don't fit easily. I put up with it because I want the nullifier for nullsec.

In hindsight (and if I let my ego run wild) its like CCP read how I solved this problem (cart ishtars and vexors to locations in low and highsec islands with a viator and then fly to them with a helios), and removed all the irrititating logistics standing between risk averse bears and b-type loot and pirate cruiser bpcs.


I'd be very interested in your fit if you're willing to share it, though I kind of assume it's out of my budget.


I'd imagine -- and I'm totally open to correction -- what he has in mind is:

a) No probe launcher. If you're relying on den escalations for your sites, just fit another gun.
b) Shield tank/max damage for the anoms. DNC/prop mod in the mids with DDAs, OTEs, and maybe even a heat sink in the lows.

But that's just a guess. Details are probably going to vary slightly depending on which space you're in. Shield tank would be obvious in Angel space but you might run into trouble in Blood/Sansha areas that way.

I suppose it would be good for that. I don't really hunt anoms -- ever, really -- but I could see it working on paper.
Herni Isimazu
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-06-10 21:31:14 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Herni Isimazu wrote:
Taurano wrote:

Honestly the stratios if you fit it specifically for ded 5s escalation farming (which Zhilia hasn't), is probably the best single-boat package in the game for the task since it can fuss free commute to different spots that have dens piled up whether or not those are islands, and then it can commute to the location of escalation in lowsec, with nil ammunition requirements - just need a depot (well not really) a couple of spare damage amps, 2 geckos spare (so you can semi afk farm) and a couple of tank mods.

Proteus is a big ugly bundle of parts that don't fit easily. I put up with it because I want the nullifier for nullsec.

In hindsight (and if I let my ego run wild) its like CCP read how I solved this problem (cart ishtars and vexors to locations in low and highsec islands with a viator and then fly to them with a helios), and removed all the irrititating logistics standing between risk averse bears and b-type loot and pirate cruiser bpcs.


I'd be very interested in your fit if you're willing to share it, though I kind of assume it's out of my budget.


I'd imagine -- and I'm totally open to correction -- what he has in mind is:

a) No probe launcher. If you're relying on den escalations for your sites, just fit another gun.
b) Shield tank/max damage for the anoms. DNC/prop mod in the mids with DDAs, OTEs, and maybe even a heat sink in the lows.

But that's just a guess. Details are probably going to vary slightly depending on which space you're in. Shield tank would be obvious in Angel space but you might run into trouble in Blood/Sansha areas that way.

I suppose it would be good for that. I don't really hunt anoms -- ever, really -- but I could see it working on paper.


Nifty ideas there.

I'm mostly a trader by profession, but I've been branching into exploration as a way to break up the monotany of grinding 0.01isk and working on my standings. Furnished my (cheaply fit relative to yours Cry ) Stratios about a week ago and it's been fun to fly. Still skilling into it, but I like the fact I don't have to bother checking the markets for ammo when I just want to wander from site to site.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#17 - 2014-06-11 07:11:26 UTC
Herni Isimazu wrote:

I'd be very interested in your fit if you're willing to share it, though I kind of assume it's out of my budget.


Zhilias fit is a great base to start with.

Corpum A-Type Energized Thermic Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Kinetic Membrane

I would replace with hardeners, and I'd more than likely have a cap hardwire. Once i had the non battleships down in a ded 5, I'd be using the depot to replace the hardeners with an eanm and a DDA for more firepower. I'd also use the depot to go to 5 tank mods to get in the end of a ded 5 so as to be able to snipe the overseer, bm wreck and leave to let the encounter despawn.

For den farming, I'd use the same rigging to not mess the ship up but fit a shield tank, full gunrack of largest lasers and quite possibly geckos (depending on how much attention I was going to pay), I'd probably expect 4 damage mods and a fitting mod in the lows for that if I was paying attention to it and using the guns and sentries.

Rhys Llywellyn
Llywellyn's School for Wayward Girls
#18 - 2014-06-11 20:05:51 UTC
I would suggest a Shield Tank rather than Armor, if your skills permit it.
La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#19 - 2014-06-16 14:20:16 UTC
The smallish drone bays makes this ship unviable for exploration combat sites in my opinion. Why would you ever use it over an Ishtar?

I could see it still being a very effective explorer hunter but that's about it. If the decent sized drone bay is ever returned to it then I might start flying it
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#20 - 2014-06-16 23:38:46 UTC
La'Krul wrote:
The smallish drone bays makes this ship unviable for exploration combat sites in my opinion. Why would you ever use it over an Ishtar?

I could see it still being a very effective explorer hunter but that's about it. If the decent sized drone bay is ever returned to it then I might start flying it


Issue isn't the bay, which is quite fine. Issue is bandwidth.

And while the obvious answer is that you'd use it because you want to have a covops cloak, I agree that for exploration I'd generally rather have an Ishtar.
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