Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Surely this just shows that the jump clone functionality works as designed? You made a choice based upon risk to jump into a lower values clone and have lower benefits from it, then jump back to the more expensive clone when that risk has passed? In all cases the functionality is working correctly here...

As an Industrialist focused player it gives me better access to ice, ore and market opportunities. Feel free to remain docked and gain the extra 1200 SP per day if that is your primary goal, mine is to get out and get stuff done in the universe so I'm happy with my +3's. Those extra 1200 SP per day aren't earning you any isk whilst you stay docked so I would return a question of 'What's the point?'. Compromise and use +4's and whilst it takes a little longer to gain the next skill grab yourself some more isk and/or fun.

Note: That isn't intended as a dig at someone who stays docked with +5's, it's just not a choice I would make. And it is just that, a choice.

This.

I can see the couterarguments, and yes some of it is about attitude and making meaningful choices. Part of that is that older players are used to the system and have accepted it, but it's still flawed. It's true you can PVP in implants or without, and sensible players will find workarounds. Still, why should non-combat characters acquire more SP than others? Even my own alts irritate me at times (and crap, I just noticed Marsha has no imps in at all and probably hasn't for months, fml, argh).

I really disagree with the principle of penalising players via clone costs or implants for pvping. Older players are more likely to have +5s and are probably heavily invested in their characters, but once you hit level 5 skills it's a system of diminishing returns anyway. It seems like we are being doubly penalised at times. Also a lot of rookies rush to get implants early on and they find it a deterent to pvping as well if they haven't figured out how to get clones without grinding the standings.

In null if you're doing a lot of subcap fleet stuff involving bubbles it does get expensive. Dictor and command ship pilots in particular have problems with implants and clones, and again, it seems unfair that particular playstyles suffer more than others. It's a different scenario in other areas of space, or for cap pilots, which just doesn't make sense.

in the context of pvp that's not a meaningful choice because all you're getting is more isk at risk.

hardwirings are meaningful choice; more isk at risk in order so that you're being better at something.

learning implants, on the other hand... you're either putting more isk at risk for no reward in your situation, or you're hamstringing your character as a whole by lowering your rate of character progression. that's not meaningful, that's just picking how you want to be penalised. it's like being asked if you'd rather be stabbed or shot. you don't really want either of them.

The unfortunate truth is that for most people; not bothering with 1 of eve's many activities is the lesser of the two evils. that's an issue when that one activity people would rather give up is the one that's at the core of the game.

when a choice is between two negatives, i'd find i hard to call that "good" or "meaningful" or "interesting".

If they are self-defined 'combat pilots' (ROFL) and remain docked, there are less risk-averse chickens flying around.

This improves my gaming experience, because risk-averse chickens rarely give good fights. Actually, they mostly run away, thus wasting my time.


So: Risk-averse pilots that remain docked improve my gaming experience because they don't waste my time.


Also: not undocking to train skills that you'll never use because you never undock is... mind blowing.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. If you did a full officer fit frigate should you keep it parked in station? You make a choice so deal with it. If the risk too high you downgrade to what you feel comfortable with. Maybe the fix is too complicated? Don't fly what you can't afford to lose... Just because it's a pod does not make it an exception... Or maybe getting rid of pod killing?

The same arguments come out every time this comes up and the ones against removing implants are just as weak every time.

You get the super rich (Mags) going "well I can afford to loose +5's so they don't matter'
You get the 'Lolz, u r carebear and will never PvP anyway' crowd.
And you get the 'meaningful choice' crowd.

None are good reasons to keep a poor mechanic. Learning skills were a more meaningful choice than implants since they created a 'things now or invest for things in the future' choice. Learning implants are just a sunk cost.

better idea: keep the implants and bring back the learning skills. You've got jump clones use one for skill training.

+1 remove learning attribute enhancements via implants and / or convert to boosters (to keep ISK sink)

IMO the learning implants 1) hinder younger capsuleers to take risks they otherwise would and 2) create frustration in case of loss, and hence contribute to the bad new player retention. The only way to find out probably is to make the change.

I do a lot of risky stuff with learning implants, and I'm starting to get used to the idea of doing PvP stuff with pirate implants too. I really don't mind losing a set every now and then because the ships I fly typically cost as much or more than my full set of implants, and I enjoy the benefits they offer. Seems like a fair trade to me.