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Crime & Punishment

 
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Free ISK is a Crime
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korrey
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-06-06 12:44:31 UTC  |  Edited by: korrey
I am here to summarize punishment that has been dispensed to the Market Discussion forum members for their obvious crime.

CRIME: Giving Free ISK
PUNISHMENT: Losing said ISK -
Total: 5.905b ISK

Backstory: If you follow the Market Discussion forums for any length of time, you are well aware of the scams that land every single day. If you are unaware, then all I will say is...Governor McM. Prime example.

Lately there has been an uptick in Loans being given out without any API information required, or collateral, or so much as a hint of the possibility of repayment other than "I will repay this loan because ________ ." This has come to the attention of an undisclosed Market Discussion veteran who is tired of the daily threads asking for money with no API verification that the borrower even has necessary skills to pay back the loan VIA trading, or manufacturing.

As such, myself and a small team (or army of alts, whichever makes the story better for you) was hired to raise awareness for such foolishness on the MD forums. This was the outcome:

750m Loan with no API or collateral given
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4615098#post4615098

750m Loan again given (after completing the first with money gained on another free loan)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4615433#post4615433

1.1B Loan given with no API or collateral given
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4488935#post4488935

415m Loan given with no API or collateral given
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4484796#post4484796


GRAND SLAM

1.2B Loan (Turned into a 2.95B Loan) given with no API or collateral given
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4609054#post4609054

The loan linked above was the second loan proposed by this member of our team. The first was for 415m isk, on which we paid back ~475m and lost about 60m (covered by all the above loans) so that we could gain reputation. And then instantly jumped to 1.2B.

HOWEVER, the 1.2b loan was covered instantly. Upon realizing more ISK could be generated through foolishness, an email was sent out to prior investors secretly asking if they still wanted to send ISK behind the original investors back, they could earn the same percentage. Two previous investors sent isk, equating to 1.1b and 750m respectively. This brought the total loan up to 2.95b, no API or collateral.


In short, stop this nonsensical handing out of free money on the Market Discussion forum. Don't accept a loan if no API is given. This is EvE, and handing out free money is madness. Let this serve as a reminder.

With hugs,
Korrey
Isaac Schwartz
Caldari State Venture Capital
#2 - 2014-06-06 13:01:53 UTC
Where do I send the free ISK for this information?
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-06-06 13:31:25 UTC
thought i had been seeing more of those threads than normal.
nice to know what was behind it.
although i have only made one MD loan which is still ongoing. no api or collateral was used. had about 5 months interest from it now.
i did however judge that the person borrowing wouldn't sell his reputation for such a small sum.
anyway just wanted to add a 3rd parameter to the api and collateral components.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
korrey
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-06-06 13:42:28 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
thought i had been seeing more of those threads than normal.
nice to know what was behind it.
although i have only made one MD loan which is still ongoing. no api or collateral was used. had about 5 months interest from it now.
i did however judge that the person borrowing wouldn't sell his reputation for such a small sum.
anyway just wanted to add a 3rd parameter to the api and collateral components.


Very fair. I can understand small amounts being invested in as an opportunity cost. I have no issues with that.

My main concern is when people are loaning plex amounts (750m) or even 1.2b in one swing.
korrey
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-06-06 19:58:26 UTC
Isaac Schwartz wrote:
Where do I send the free ISK for this information?


Please send the ISK to me. I'll verify you have sent it publicly on these forums. You are guaranteed 105% interest rate.
Mark Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-06-07 00:21:46 UTC
I am confused why you care what people do with their ISK.

Also maybe I am missing something but it seems to me that this would be a perfect way to "legitimize" selling ISK. So for instance you have a separate place advertising the sale of ISK. Said person buys it on that site with instructions to post such a thread, the seller then goes and finishes the transaction and can easily claim the ISK transfer as a "loan".
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#7 - 2014-06-07 01:52:26 UTC
I was wondering where all those threads were coming from. Big smile
Paranoid Loyd
#8 - 2014-06-07 02:09:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Mark Munoz wrote:
I am confused why you care what people do with their ISK.


He doesn't, this thread was made to pat himself on the back.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
korrey
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-06-07 04:05:25 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Mark Munoz wrote:
I am confused why you care what people do with their ISK.


He doesn't, this thread was made to pat himself on the back.


Does that really surprise anyone? If it does, welcome to EvE Lol

As for me caring. Paranoid is correct. I couldn't care less what people do with their ISK. Though if it gets routed to me, I won't complain. The person that hired me must at least semi-care, but I also consequently don't care why he cares either.

This is about 35% Back-Self-Patting. It would be a full 100%, but ~5bil isn't anything to particularly write home about.
Catalytic morphisis
Moonlit Marshmallow
No Therapy
#10 - 2014-06-08 21:30:12 UTC
feel free to loan me more money guys, I'm very poor, Only have 40 Bill in my wallet and I want more :(

Actual Link free and scout free solo PvP'er
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-06-09 23:42:21 UTC
Catalytic morphisis wrote:
feel free to loan me more money guys, I'm very poor, Only have 40 Bill in my wallet and I want more :(


I'd have 40 billion if I wasn't bad with money. "Ooh that ship looks cool! Ugh it sucks! Into storage with you! Go collect dust!"

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
korrey
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-06-10 03:31:57 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Catalytic morphisis wrote:
feel free to loan me more money guys, I'm very poor, Only have 40 Bill in my wallet and I want more :(


I'd have 40 billion if I wasn't bad with money. "Ooh that ship looks cool! Ugh it sucks! Into storage with you! Go collect dust!"


I would also have significantly more money if I wasn't terribad at PVP 30% of the time. I whelped a NOmen to Concord last night. Good times.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#13 - 2014-06-12 02:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Money Makin Mitch
Why do you care so much about what others do with their isk, what concern is it to you? Roll
O'nira
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-06-12 03:59:19 UTC
You scammed 4 bill and made a thread about it?

not only that but you exaggerated the isk you got by including the loans you paid back?

I can just imagine you putting more effort into this whole thing than it would have taken you just to farm the isk.

you probably could have gotten 10-20 bill by doing a longer scheme.

also that isk ain't free, it comes at the price of your reputation and partly your corps although you might not care about it there is a price.
Michael Bloomberg
Association of Apocrypha Magnetohydrodynamics
#15 - 2014-06-12 05:29:03 UTC
The scams in MD are becoming more meta everyday...
Cavalira
Habemus
#16 - 2014-06-12 18:46:40 UTC
Why would you sign your post, when theres a huge portrait of you followed by your name and corporation?

6b isk is a big deal for someone in RVB, I guess.
korrey
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-06-12 23:20:44 UTC  |  Edited by: korrey
You brought back a thread from the second page of the CP forum to take unoriginal shots at how much ISK you presume I do or don't have? #awkward..

A number of you seemed to have TL:DR the original post. In summary for you:

I get paid for posting this. It is / has been / will be read by users of the MD forum to hopefully raise awareness and stop giving out ISK. The person that asked us to do this makes ISK through the MD forum and the fraudulent scams created there were stealing business from him, a player actually capable of delivering on his loans.

As for me personally, 5.5bil is neither here nor there. It will be used for buying and blowing ships up. Just like the rest of my money that I make off station trading alts.

The forum warriors are busy, as per usual. Big smile
Zero Sum Gain
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOM
#18 - 2014-06-12 23:22:25 UTC
Cavalira wrote:
Why would you sign your post, when theres a huge portrait of you followed by your name and corporation?


You raise a good point. That does seem stupid, redundant, and/or an outdated habit.

Signed,
Zero Sum Gain
O'nira
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-06-13 00:41:13 UTC
korrey wrote:
You brought back a thread from the second page of the CP forum to take unoriginal shots at how much ISK you presume I do or don't have? #awkward..

A number of you seemed to have TL:DR the original post. In summary for you:

I get paid for posting this. It is / has been / will be read by users of the MD forum to hopefully raise awareness and stop giving out ISK. The person that asked us to do this makes ISK through the MD forum and the fraudulent scams created there were stealing business from him, a player actually capable of delivering on his loans.

As for me personally, 5.5bil is neither here nor there. It will be used for buying and blowing ships up. Just like the rest of my money that I make off station trading alts.

The forum warriors are busy, as per usual. Big smile


Everyone knows investing in md loans is a risk, people do it because its fun for them or to roleplay a banker of some sort. no one actually makes money from those small loans. you scamming them will not stop them from wanting that experience.

you burned the reputation of a few of your chars and partly your corps for 4 billion isk. i don't want to call you an idiot but it's pretty close.

forums warriors? did the forum warriors create this thread as well?

you obviously wanted responses
korrey
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-06-13 12:15:59 UTC
O'nira wrote:
korrey wrote:
You brought back a thread from the second page of the CP forum to take unoriginal shots at how much ISK you presume I do or don't have? #awkward..

A number of you seemed to have TL:DR the original post. In summary for you:

I get paid for posting this. It is / has been / will be read by users of the MD forum to hopefully raise awareness and stop giving out ISK. The person that asked us to do this makes ISK through the MD forum and the fraudulent scams created there were stealing business from him, a player actually capable of delivering on his loans.

As for me personally, 5.5bil is neither here nor there. It will be used for buying and blowing ships up. Just like the rest of my money that I make off station trading alts.

The forum warriors are busy, as per usual. Big smile


Everyone knows investing in md loans is a risk, people do it because its fun for them or to roleplay a banker of some sort. no one actually makes money from those small loans. you scamming them will not stop them from wanting that experience.

you burned the reputation of a few of your chars and partly your corps for 4 billion isk. i don't want to call you an idiot but it's pretty close.

forums warriors? did the forum warriors create this thread as well?

you obviously wanted responses



I certainly get what you're saying, I'm not attempting to gloat over the ISK I generated through the MP forums. Its the equivalent of four freighters worth of ISK, not particularly exciting.

However, as I've stated roughly three times thus far, my post wasn't to garner attention over the lackluster amount of ISK I received, it was simply to receive the second half of my payment from another MD user.

I have received that payment, as per the agreement, and now this thread can either die off or continue, either one doesn't particularly affect me too much. I did gain a few likes out of it though. EvE O forums is a mini-facebook now apparently.
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