These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Restrict NPC Corporation Posting Abilities.

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#601 - 2014-06-04 01:10:01 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:

Classic adhominem as well. Almost forgot that, thanks for the reminder.

edit: frankly, you're just further digging your own grave here by making more low-quality posts. Obviously belonging to a player corp doesn't really equate to better posts. As I stated pages ago.


Ouch, I'm not sure if I can sleep at night knowing you don't like me.

No, but I think there's a correlation between a willingness to spam and post stupid ideas and the ease at which you can abandon your own social history.

I've already posted a great deal before hand. 1 - 2 - 3

If there's any reason for a degradation in my posting quality, it's mainly because I have to reiterate my position to people like you Ad nauseam(see I can latinz too, that makes me smartz).

Your points were already made, I just wasn't very impressed with them. If your quality is just going to degrade you can simply stop posting.

Says the NPC corp alt, making 'you suck' 'no u' posts with me. Big smile

Schrodinger's Hot Dropper

The Fate of Forum Alts

Guaranteed Success
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#602 - 2014-06-08 14:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4663296#post4663296


Finally have something more than a phone to post on.

1. Yep you're going to have to take my word for it here because I cannot share the trade secrets that exist. We are more than capable of infiltrating and destroying any EVE corporation we desire. We have the best espionage network in the game.

2. Okay you're still railing against the :effort: wall which CCP has determined to be most effective yet the least restrictive. There's still the CAOD precedent which happens to not be over run with troll alt corps.

3. When we're trying to get someone else to do something one of the best ways to get it to occur is to have it be the solution that requires the least work. There is no data supporting that there will be any "backlash and fallout" resulting from the decision, a few troll whines popped up after CAOD rules but, that was no more than the regular troll whine like infinity ziona produced in GD; its ephemeral.

4. Except trolling is against the forum rules/EULA/TOS. So alts specifically dedicated to the task should not be allowed to be created in the first place let alone post.

5. Yes you are right they do not have that current information and instead are dependent upon remembering if someone is a "trouble maker" or not. They are entirely dependent on memory and even if evidence exists they have very little tools to support their actions with it, which is again why my suggestion is only one part of the solution. Since it is far more easy to remember one thing than hundreds of things having to remember one corporation versus 100 alts makes it much easier for them to do their job. Providing additional tools can be another additional part of the solution. ISD please correct me if I have misunderstood something.

6. So you have no issues with the current game play of mining/hauling/mission running/etc having no benefit for player corporation membership?


a. Fair enough.

b. Working as intended then you are willing to put in the effort and risk something so you get to post.

c. Self policing is not bullying. This term is overused by the EVE populace to the point its only meaning is "someone doing something I do not like." Its basically compounding moderation, you have the players, the ISD, and CCP moderating discussion. There are plenty of ways to voice unpopular opinions too with just a little bit of ingenuity this is not going to suppress dissent, instead its going to make stupid and willfully obtuse hurt more while improving forum quality.

d. Except it isn't the precendent set by CAOD shows they will not do as you have claimed and it shows in increase in quality of the CAOD forum. The goal is not to remove troll posting in its entirety because that's as of now not possible. However the goal and purpose of this suggestion is to REDUCE it which is entirely possible.

e. This is not true at all and completely unsupported/justified.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#603 - 2014-06-08 14:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
afkalt wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
afkalt wrote:


That's because the ONLY way to moderate forums is with empowered moderators.

COAD is a band aid only because ISD can't do anything - change that and we do not need these hoops to hop through.

However, you seem bent on not letting go of your idea so I suppose there is little point in going round in this circle again. Personally I find your willingness to ignore/sweep concerns aside and unwillingness to consider other alternative ideas an indication you're not actually interested in discourse.

And I see you're still ducking the question of is this about moderation, or the ability to retaliate against posters.


That bolded part is not true at all you cannot state that without support for it.


That's simply ridiculous and you know it. Of course we can state that moderated forums need empowered moderators - otherwise we have a glorified "keep off the grass" sign and nothing more.

I shall take your continued refusal to clarify if this is about trolling or you not being able to retaliate against posters you dislike as confirmation of the latter. You're not interested in letting ISD be given the tools, you're not interested in the fact that we have evidence of player corps crapping all over threads, you're not interested in much it seems - save gagging NPC corps. Of course I expect your powerful goonspiracy rebuttal in 5....4....3....

Oh and you forgot tech support from your original list. That's a big oversight.

There is no point in my replying to you any longer.



Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
I too am disgusted in the way that the GD forums has gone downhill if I may say, I say that because to many times I have seen discussions get totally derailed by these posters from NPC corps and that does NOT contribute to the original ideas of discussion. Many times they make absolutely the worst statements that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and this causes a lot of unfounded reasoning and subjects the OP to unneeded abuse.

I don't post that often but this is one of those times where I agree in the way that this matter should be handled. I am in fact in favour of restricting NPC posters to those areas of the forums and ONLY those areas until they join a player corp, then maybe allow them to access the rest of the forums.

I also believe stronger moderation of such postings by NPC members to the point of an out right banning in those instances where needed.


So what are your thoughts on player corps train wrecking threads?

What do you suggest we do when trollymctrollcorp (I might even make that, for laughs) pops up and craps all over the forums?

Heck, the top two posts around this as I responded are skill refund whines and nerf threads. Both from player corp members.


You stated that the ONLY, yes there is one and only one way to do something, is to empower moderators. Its not true at all there are plenty of other ways to moderate forums. The precedent has still been set and is still there being a reality denier and playing with strawmen does not make you any less wrong.

E: I don't need to clarify anything, you need to read the OP to see the purpose of my thread through the haze of your own goonspiracy.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#604 - 2014-06-08 14:22:44 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:

Let's not get into CCP's finances. I know nothing about them and if I knew, I wouldn't be allowed to talk about them. It's their resources and their decision how to use them. What we can talk about are possible effects of any approach and here's the problem: I still don't believe yours would work in long term. I guess you may have missed my post #527 where is a surprisingly short summary of my objections. If you want to convince me my worries are unfounded, try to do it on merit basis, not by accusing me of raging or of goon conspiracy.


No you don't get to side step the point that my suggestion is far more financially viable and simpler than yours. I take it you concede the point?

It's quite straightforward since there is no 'mine' proposal (I only suggested looking into slashdot moderation but to fish for ideas, not to take it as a ready solution). And I never denied that your solution is cheap, easy and simple. My only gripe is that it's wrong.

While we're at it, in #566 you claim that your proposal is only part of a bigger solution but in #570 you say to the effect that alternatives are unfeasible. So what would be those other parts, given you yourself admitted that the one of yours won't work on its own?


This is essentially "your point defeats the entirety of my argument so I'm going to ignore it." Okay thanks I accept your surrender.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#605 - 2014-06-08 14:26:01 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
That entire prior exchange just goes to prove once again that forum behaviors fueled by the incessant need for 1-upmanship in a contest of witty 1 liners, completely removed from the point and serving only to demonstrate the clutter issue, are just as much started and perpetuated by player corp characters as it is by characters in NPC corps.

This is what degrades the forums. And it's not limited to NPC corp players but is as just demonstrated often further fueled by the erroneous idea that for some reason an otherwise sound post is invalidated by a corp ticker.


True but, it is exacerbated by the continual creation of disposable npc alts. There's a reason I am not permitted to create a ganking alt and biomass it once its security status gets too low and the same logic applies here to forum alts.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#606 - 2014-06-08 14:40:27 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

---
A commonly suggested alternative: Restrict posting to the highest SP character on the account.
---

What if the highest SP character on the account is in an NPC corp?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#607 - 2014-06-08 14:43:36 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Alaekessa wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

---
A commonly suggested alternative: Restrict posting to the highest SP character on the account.
---

What if the highest SP character on the account is in an NPC corp?


You found the hole and why I don't favor that suggestion. I put it there because a lot of people in the thread think its a good alternative and it kept coming up every 2 pages. I figure its a decent compromise from what I originally suggested.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#608 - 2014-06-09 14:23:52 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:

Let's not get into CCP's finances. I know nothing about them and if I knew, I wouldn't be allowed to talk about them. It's their resources and their decision how to use them. What we can talk about are possible effects of any approach and here's the problem: I still don't believe yours would work in long term. I guess you may have missed my post #527 where is a surprisingly short summary of my objections. If you want to convince me my worries are unfounded, try to do it on merit basis, not by accusing me of raging or of goon conspiracy.


No you don't get to side step the point that my suggestion is far more financially viable and simpler than yours. I take it you concede the point?

It's quite straightforward since there is no 'mine' proposal (I only suggested looking into slashdot moderation but to fish for ideas, not to take it as a ready solution). And I never denied that your solution is cheap, easy and simple. My only gripe is that it's wrong.

While we're at it, in #566 you claim that your proposal is only part of a bigger solution but in #570 you say to the effect that alternatives are unfeasible. So what would be those other parts, given you yourself admitted that the one of yours won't work on its own?


This is essentially "your point defeats the entirety of my argument so I'm going to ignore it." Okay thanks I accept your surrender.

I take it as "I have no good answers to asked questions and I have no intention to find them". Okay, I accept your surrender.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#609 - 2014-06-09 16:10:44 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:

I take it as "I have no good answers to asked questions and I have no intention to find them". Okay, I accept your surrender.


So you've already devolved to "no you" instead of addressing my point about financials. Please leave the thread if you have nothing more to add.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#610 - 2014-06-09 19:05:14 UTC
I support this.

Mainly because if people want the "reward" of posting, they need to take on the "risk" of being shot. Big smile
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#611 - 2014-06-09 19:15:17 UTC
A goon trying to reduce trolling?!? Has a quantum shift happened since I was away from the game?

As to the idea: NO. As a selling point for the game is for players to go their own way in New Eden, I can't see how limiting players' involvement in the forums will improve things.

Daft when you consider it. If someone has offended thee to such a degree that retribution is necessary then gunning down someone in an NPC corp is perfectly feasible. Concord waste your ship BUT it was a necessary action.

This is, once again, someone attempting to dictate playstyle to other players. As the OP is a goon, it's obviously just another attempt to get people into player corps to be shot at.

Verdict: LAME.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#612 - 2014-06-09 19:36:09 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:

I take it as "I have no good answers to asked questions and I have no intention to find them". Okay, I accept your surrender.


So you've already devolved to "no you" instead of addressing my point about financials. Please leave the thread if you have nothing more to add.

Looking at the reply chain, you started this pissing contest of ignoring a thought-out and crafted argument to put words in someone else's mouth. Pot and kettle, something, something.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#613 - 2014-06-09 20:10:36 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:

I take it as "I have no good answers to asked questions and I have no intention to find them". Okay, I accept your surrender.


So you've already devolved to "no you" instead of addressing my point about financials. Please leave the thread if you have nothing more to add.

Looking at the reply chain, you started this pissing contest of ignoring a thought-out and crafted argument to put words in someone else's mouth. Pot and kettle, something, something.


Except it wasn't, the guy was happy to ignore a point that destroyed his argument and has continued to do nothing but bring up the same things that have already been answered/defeated. You should do yourself a favor and read the thread.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#614 - 2014-06-09 20:13:23 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:
A goon trying to reduce trolling?!? Has a quantum shift happened since I was away from the game?

As to the idea: NO. As a selling point for the game is for players to go their own way in New Eden, I can't see how limiting players' involvement in the forums will improve things.

Daft when you consider it. If someone has offended thee to such a degree that retribution is necessary then gunning down someone in an NPC corp is perfectly feasible. Concord waste your ship BUT it was a necessary action.

This is, once again, someone attempting to dictate playstyle to other players. As the OP is a goon, it's obviously just another attempt to get people into player corps to be shot at.

Verdict: LAME.


So you didn't read the OP either, faceless npc troll alt is not a play style its a forum rule/EULA/TOS violation.

The OP wrote:
E: All of you posting about play style please remember faceless NPC alt troll is not a play style its a forum rule/EULA/TOS violation.


Its literally the first text in the OP so you have no excuse.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Anslo
Scope Works
#615 - 2014-06-09 20:51:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Define trolling. A player's main could be in an NPC Corp and voice their opinion 100% truthfully. Who gets to determine whether said opinion is trolling? You? Why? Because you don't like their opinion?

So they should be silenced from their NPC Corp because those who troll actively on alts lead to anyone in an NPC corp being branded as faceless troll alt people who have no relevant play style?

Gr8 b8 m8.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#616 - 2014-06-09 21:03:56 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Define trolling. A player's main could be in an NPC Corp and voice their opinion 100% truthfully. Who gets to determine whether said opinion is trolling? You? Why? Because you don't like their opinion?

So they should be silenced from their NPC Corp because those who troll actively on alts lead to anyone in an NPC corp being branded as faceless troll alt people who have no relevant play style?

Gr8 b8 m8.


CCP gets to define trolling on their forums:

From EVElopedia[/quote wrote:

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules

You can read the OP for the rest of your questions in that post.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Anslo
Scope Works
#617 - 2014-06-09 21:10:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Funny. In my time in Eve, the most disruptive posts tend to be from player corporations, while NPC corp players end up either not even knowing the forums exist, or post rather constructively.

That is, unless you have statistics to back up your claim that NPC corps are indeed the source of trolling posts on the forums?

EDIT: In addition, a lot of people could look at your post and say it is an attempt to offend other players, namely people who prefer npc corps.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#618 - 2014-06-09 21:17:05 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Funny. In my time in Eve, the most disruptive posts tend to be from player corporations, while NPC corp players end up either not even knowing the forums exist, or post rather constructively.

That is, unless you have statistics to back up your claim that NPC corps are indeed the source of trolling posts on the forums?

EDIT: In addition, a lot of people could look at your post and say it is an attempt to offend other players, namely people who prefer npc corps.


Okay that's a nice anecdote but, we have actual evidence with the quality improvement in CAOD when the restriction went into effect.

Anslo wrote:
Who gets to determine whether said opinion is trolling? You? Why? Because you don't like their opinion?


Oh the irony and projection. The only purpose of this thread is to pose a suggestion to a problem if you find any other meaning in it that is self derived and not anything I, the author, am trying to convey.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Anslo
Scope Works
#619 - 2014-06-09 21:23:32 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Okay that's a nice anecdote but, we have actual evidence with the quality improvement in CAOD when the restriction went into effect.


We could put our observations against each other's all day and night and get nowhere, however

Quote:
Oh the irony and projection. The only purpose of this thread is to pose a suggestion to a problem if you find any other meaning in it that is self derived and not anything I, the author, am trying to convey.


You are using the result of policy change in a sub forum notorious for being a magnet for trolls given the vitriolic nature of alliance versus alliance discussion. As I said, I have not seen this NPC Corp forum troll scourge anywhere else on the forums. Not GD, not OOPE, not F&I, no where. No, the trashy posts come more from people in player corporations.

Unless you have actual numbers to justify a blanket forum ban on npc corp posting abilities that shows it would cut down on trolling posts, and not pointing to results of a policy change in a sub-forum known to be a cesspool, then your claims really hold no validity.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#620 - 2014-06-09 21:34:40 UTC
Anslo wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Okay that's a nice anecdote but, we have actual evidence with the quality improvement in CAOD when the restriction went into effect.


We could put our observations against each other's all day and night and get nowhere, however

Quote:
Oh the irony and projection. The only purpose of this thread is to pose a suggestion to a problem if you find any other meaning in it that is self derived and not anything I, the author, am trying to convey.


You are using the result of policy change in a sub forum notorious for being a magnet for trolls given the vitriolic nature of alliance versus alliance discussion. As I said, I have not seen this NPC Corp forum troll scourge anywhere else on the forums. Not GD, not OOPE, not F&I, no where. No, the trashy posts come more from people in player corporations.

Unless you have actual numbers to justify a blanket forum ban on npc corp posting abilities that shows it would cut down on trolling posts, and not pointing to results of a policy change in a sub-forum known to be a cesspool, then your claims really hold no validity.


Except anecdotes like what you provided aren't observations or evidence. However the precedent I provided is empirical evidence. The entire forum has its quality going down hence why CCP asked what they could do to improve it. You can whinge all you like about how any change without a quintuple-blind peer reviewed high impact journal study behind it isn't a good change and should never ever happen all you like. However that does not make what you are saying have any merit or truth to it. The bottom line is it is impossible to get what you're asking for much like its impossible to get the exact events of a historical event that occurred 2000 years ago. Yet lacking those things does not invalidate or make it a bad suggestion.

I'd be willing to bet 100,000,000.00 isk that you'd still be against this idea even if I had mountains of scientific data showing that NPC alts are the sole source of quality degradation. If your post history is any indicator facts/data don't mean anything to you so I'm not going to waste anymore time unless you have a salient point to bring up.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133