These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High sec GANKING
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#261 - 2014-06-08 07:06:58 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Sure thing. Just to have an orientation: How much are you willing to pay for a CC from, let's say, Jita to Stacmon with 4B in valuables for your 00 life?


About the same as you would pay Red Frog to ship it.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#262 - 2014-06-08 07:11:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Sure thing. Just to have an orientation: How much are you willing to pay for a CC from, let's say, Jita to Stacmon with 4B in valuables for your 00 life?


About the same as you would pay Red Frog to ship it.


Ignoring the fact that I did not ask you: Excuse me? You must be joking.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#263 - 2014-06-08 07:30:36 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Sure thing. Just to have an orientation: How much are you willing to pay for a CC from, let's say, Jita to Stacmon with 4B in valuables for your 00 life?


About the same as you would pay Red Frog to ship it.


Ignoring the fact that I did not ask you: Excuse me? You must be joking.


Why would they charge less or more than Red Frog?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#264 - 2014-06-08 07:37:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Sure thing. Just to have an orientation: How much are you willing to pay for a CC from, let's say, Jita to Stacmon with 4B in valuables for your 00 life?


About the same as you would pay Red Frog to ship it.


Ignoring the fact that I did not ask you: Excuse me? You must be joking.


Why would they charge less or more than Red Frog?


Well, I am fairly certain that neither the haulers nor the protectors work at no charge. And the current 750k/high sec jump of RF means that one of the parties would have to do just that. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#265 - 2014-06-08 08:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Sure thing. Just to have an orientation: How much are you willing to pay for a CC from, let's say, Jita to Stacmon with 4B in valuables for your 00 life?


About the same as you would pay Red Frog to ship it.


Ignoring the fact that I did not ask you: Excuse me? You must be joking.


Why would they charge less or more than Red Frog?


Well, I am fairly certain that neither the haulers nor the protectors work at no charge. And the current 750k/high sec jump of RF means that one of the parties would have to do just that. Roll


What?

Why would one of them work for free? The mercs would simply charge the same as red frog so RF isn't undercutting them.

So for a 5 bil shipping contract you would pay 95 mil for that trip of yours.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#266 - 2014-06-08 08:43:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:

Well, I am fairly certain that neither the haulers nor the protectors work at no charge. And the current 750k/high sec jump of RF means that one of the parties would have to do just that. Roll


What?

Why would one of them work for free? The mercs would simply charge the same as red frog so RF isn't undercutting them.

So for a 5 bil shipping contract you would pay 95 mil for that trip of yours.


5.2M/jump for a High sec gate-gate CC? In which reality do you live, if I may ask?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#267 - 2014-06-08 08:50:21 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:


5.2M/jump for a High sec gate-gate CC? In which reality do you live, if I may ask?


That's what it costs to ship 5 bil worth of goods via blue frog.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#268 - 2014-06-08 08:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


5.2M/jump for a High sec gate-gate CC? In which reality do you live, if I may ask?


That's what it costs to ship 5 bil worth of goods via blue frog.


And that is only the reward for the contract transport. No cost for enhanced protection or mercs included.

Let alone that BF is an exception. Most of the High value contracts in the public contract sphere pay barely 2M, and even that only after a lot of muttering. So again: In which reality do you live? BF is an ideal state, not the reality - unfortunate as it is.

For instance, I am currently looking at an Amarr - Hek CC: Collateral is 20B, reward is 20M. Or a Jita - Taranan: Collateral is 6B, Reward 60M (one of the better ones, to be fair). Another one, Jita - Dodixie: Collateral is 14.5B, Reward 17.5M. This is the reality. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#269 - 2014-06-08 09:21:47 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


5.2M/jump for a High sec gate-gate CC? In which reality do you live, if I may ask?


That's what it costs to ship 5 bil worth of goods via blue frog.


And that is only the reward for the contract transport. No cost for enhanced protection or mercs included.

Let alone that BF is an exception. Most of the High value contracts in the public contract sphere pay barely 2M, and even that only after a lot of muttering. So again: In which reality do you live? BF is an ideal state, not the reality - unfortunate as it is.

For instance, I am currently looking at an Amarr - Hek CC: Collateral is 20B, reward is 20M. Or a Jita - Taranan: Collateral is 6B, Reward 60M (one of the better ones, to be fair). Another one, Jita - Dodixi: Collateral is 14.5B, Reward 17.5M. This is the reality. Roll


You get what you pay for, the people who run those contracts for that little tend to be the ones who show up on the GSF forums in the letters of mark and reprisals where we post our piracy antics. If you want professionals then you pay what BF is charging, if you pay 15 mil to move 18 billion then you are effectively hiring the lower end of the transport market who cut corners.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#270 - 2014-06-08 09:58:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


5.2M/jump for a High sec gate-gate CC? In which reality do you live, if I may ask?


That's what it costs to ship 5 bil worth of goods via blue frog.


And that is only the reward for the contract transport. No cost for enhanced protection or mercs included.

Let alone that BF is an exception. Most of the High value contracts in the public contract sphere pay barely 2M, and even that only after a lot of muttering. So again: In which reality do you live? BF is an ideal state, not the reality - unfortunate as it is.

For instance, I am currently looking at an Amarr - Hek CC: Collateral is 20B, reward is 20M. Or a Jita - Taranan: Collateral is 6B, Reward 60M (one of the better ones, to be fair). Another one, Jita - Dodixi: Collateral is 14.5B, Reward 17.5M. This is the reality. Roll


You get what you pay for, the people who run those contracts for that little tend to be the ones who show up on the GSF forums in the letters of mark and reprisals where we post our piracy antics. If you want professionals then you pay what BF is charging, if you pay 15 mil to move 18 billion then you are effectively hiring the lower end of the transport market who cut corners.


Exactly! But most people don't want to pay professional rates for professional service, they just want the service. Often, it doesn't even work out. If you, for instance, need to move 5B of minerals a good number of jumps, paying a lot of reward reduces your margins quite considerably. So these high rewards currently only work with stuff that you want to use, not for reselling or further processing (and no, the majority of the people is not willing to pay more on the market due to your efforts - another saddening fact.).

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#271 - 2014-06-08 10:01:50 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Exactly! But most people don't want to pay professional rates for professional service, they just want the service. Often, it doesn't even work out. If you, for instance, need to move 5B of minerals a good number of jumps, paying a lot of reward reduces your margins quite considerably. So these high rewards currently only work with stuff that you want to use, not for reselling or further processing (and no, the majority of the people is not willing to pay more on the market due to your efforts - another saddening fact.


Greedy, lazy pilots are how we stay in businessBig smile
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#272 - 2014-06-08 16:10:07 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

Exactly! But most people don't want to pay professional rates for professional service, they just want the service. Often, it doesn't even work out. If you, for instance, need to move 5B of minerals a good number of jumps, paying a lot of reward reduces your margins quite considerably. So these high rewards currently only work with stuff that you want to use, not for reselling or further processing (and no, the majority of the people is not willing to pay more on the market due to your efforts - another saddening fact.).


so rather than choose another item to haul or another market to sell at, u think the game should change so that, no matter what u choose to haul or what station u want to sell it at, it is easy, safe and cheap so that any idiot can do it?

because hauling as profession needs even less rewards right?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#273 - 2014-06-08 16:18:46 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:

Exactly! But most people don't want to pay professional rates for professional service, they just want the service. Often, it doesn't even work out. If you, for instance, need to move 5B of minerals a good number of jumps, paying a lot of reward reduces your margins quite considerably. So these high rewards currently only work with stuff that you want to use, not for reselling or further processing (and no, the majority of the people is not willing to pay more on the market due to your efforts - another saddening fact.).


so rather than choose another item to haul or another market to sell at, u think the game should change so that, no matter what u choose to haul or what station u want to sell it at, it is easy, safe and cheap so that any idiot can do it?

because hauling as profession needs even less rewards right?


Bingo. Making things more safe because bad players are doing badly just devalues the hard work of the smart, careful pilots.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#274 - 2014-06-08 17:04:45 UTC
Upon further consideration of the matter, I am thoroughly convinced that Chaosgrimm and others like him need to actually try a life of ganking before they attempt to provide insight as to what - if anything - should be done about it.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#275 - 2014-06-08 17:22:37 UTC
Fragglewump wrote:
I don't have and issue with ganking itself, but I feel that there is not enough of a punishment for it, they get a sec stat hit use tags to get it back, they get kill rights they use and alt to get rid of it or some one sets the kill rights to high for some one to want to activate it, even freighters with reinforced bulkheads only rakes 4 bc's and 18 destroyers to gank it. I my self think that is not what eve is about, my feeling with eve is there should be a counter for every thing in the game and giving 3 low slots is not a good enough counter. and even the police in they game is running on a skeleton crew, as more crimes happen in a system the police should ramp up and and as the system cools down the police protection should lower and if there are criminals in the area the system should become more protected making them use more tags.


The kill rights are admittedly not much of a deterrent as miners are not generally set up to use them. Invariably they 'time out' and are not used.

The sec status hit on the other hand is a major deterrent certainly for new gankers as the tags are difficult/rare to acquire by 'farming' them in low sec. The other method of buying them from other players, given that they are hard to source, is very expensive certainly to me. So I ration out ganking accept when my contracted targets will not listen to reason and extreme prejudice becomes the only option.

Probably the main problem is haulers filling T1 industrials, freighters, and Orcas with hundreds of millions or billions of ISK worth of cargo. They make it possible for significant profit plus the ability to purchase tags from sellers on the market. So the cycle continues.

Therefore the victim is actually bringing all this pain on themselves. Either, in my victims case, by mining unsustainably, or in the others by the haulers transporting loot piñatas. Don't ya just love that thing on top of the n. Blink
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#276 - 2014-06-08 17:27:46 UTC
jimmy recard wrote:
just look at burn jita that is just ridiculous how that can happen for so long in one system and a 1.0 one at that


http://www.isjitaburning.com/metrics.php


That is the victims fault for not engaging with the community via the official forum, other good sites such The Mittani's blogsite, in-game chat channels, and player run corporations. If you live in cave you won't know what is going on outside.
Phoenix22
H.I.D.R.I.A Industries
#277 - 2014-06-08 20:59:11 UTC
I think the bounty hunters shot have more access to the LAW like hacking mod that will allowed to hack in to the players that is dock at station low ore hige sec to force him to undock and kiil him + pod with no penalty mod shot only worck on negative Players (-1 to -10)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#278 - 2014-06-08 21:12:00 UTC
Phoenix22 wrote:
I think the bounty hunters shot have more access to the LAW like hacking mod that will allowed to hack in to the players that is dock at station low ore hige sec to force him to undock and kiil him + pod with no penalty mod shot only worck on negative Players (-1 to -10)


Lol wow.

Not only is that a dumb idea, because I thought of a way around it in about ten seconds, but it's also incredibly game breaking as a concept.

I don't know how to say "Hell no!" in enough languages to adequately express just how bad of an idea that is.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Phoenix22
H.I.D.R.I.A Industries
#279 - 2014-06-08 21:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix22
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Phoenix22 wrote:
I think the bounty hunters shot have more access to the LAW like hacking mod that will allowed to hack in to the players that is dock at station low ore hige sec to force him to undock and kiil him + pod with no penalty mod shot only worck on negative Players (-1 to -10)


Lol wow.

Not only is that a dumb idea, because I thought of a way around it in about ten seconds, but it's also incredibly game breaking as a concept.

I don't know how to say "Hell no!" in enough languages to adequately express just how bad of an idea that is.


no it is not a dumb idea it is like real police break in (SWAT) you think the Police will stay out side and do noting no they will break in sooner or later and come to get ya same goes for EVE fund the (-) Player force him out and boom 20% ore more GANKING fix the we will see haw much (-) Players will gank when there is tru LAW in the EVE
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#280 - 2014-06-08 21:52:37 UTC
Phoenix22 wrote:

no it is not a dumb idea it is like real police break in (SWAT) you think the Police will stay out side and do noting no they will break in sooner or later and come to get ya same goes for EVE fund the (-) Player force him out and boom 20% ore more GANKING fix the we will see haw much (-) Players will gank when there is tru LAW in the EVE


Yeah, it is a dumb idea. Because like I said, I thought of a way around it in about ten seconds.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.