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High sec GANKING
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#241 - 2014-06-07 19:59:39 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:

Why should you be able accurately determine who the good targets are, without throwing some guaranteed poor targets into the mix.




Because without that it is impossible to earn a living as a pirate.


how about decreasing ehp + decreasing cargo scanner accuracy?


You really are intent upon destroying an entire profession as old as the game just because you don't want to put in the effort to protect yourself aren't you.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#242 - 2014-06-07 20:03:23 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:

Would you be down for decreased cargo scanner accuracy for increased drop rates?


By doing that, you have completely boned any mission runner who likes to use faction or deadspace modules. Ganking (or especially invading) them just became entirely too profitable.

Which would have a big negative backlash effect on the high meta modules market.

Nevermind that it would break capital ship loot tables, as high meta items are commonly found on them as well.

Rather than fiddling with numerous interconnected game systems, why not just fit for tank, and manually pilot?


Lets hasten this along.

I do not care about indies.... I do not have a problem with the risk they take. (maybe i should add this to my sig)

I want gankers to have to commit to a target without being completely sure of what they're getting into. Much like contract theft, or afk cloakers, etc.

Do you see yourself agreeing to any change ingame that lead to gankers making less informed decisions, primarily via nerfing a cargo scanner, even if something else was added to the ganking profession to compensate?

If you do, we should discuss it some more. If you dont, we dont really have anything to discuss because we will never agree.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#243 - 2014-06-07 20:06:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:

Why should you be able accurately determine who the good targets are, without throwing some guaranteed poor targets into the mix.




Because without that it is impossible to earn a living as a pirate.


how about decreasing ehp + decreasing cargo scanner accuracy?


You really are intent upon destroying an entire profession as old as the game just because you don't want to put in the effort to protect yourself aren't you.


I dont think the profession should be destroyed. I do believe gankers have too much info at their disposal. Would you give up any amount info gained via the cargoscanner, even if it was in conjunction to a buff to a another aspect of the ganking profession?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#244 - 2014-06-07 20:11:10 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:


I dont think the profession should be destroyed. I do believe gankers have too much info at their disposal. Would you give up any amount info gained via the cargoscanner, even if it was in conjunction to a buff to a another aspect of the ganking profession?


No.

You would be making piracy in high sec purely a lottery and like any lottery the vast bulk of the time you lose the bet. Ganking would no longer be a viable profession.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#245 - 2014-06-07 20:11:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
chaosgrimm wrote:

I want gankers to have to commit to a target without being completely sure of what they're getting into. Much like contract theft, or afk cloakers, etc.


So you want to nerf ganking.


Quote:

Do you see yourself agreeing to any change ingame that lead to gankers making less informed decisions, primarily via nerfing a cargo scanner, even if something else was added to the ganking profession to compensate?


"something else", like what?

You do realize you'd have to really chop their tank off if you nerfed cargo scanners like you've suggested, right? I'm talking by 2/3 or so.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#246 - 2014-06-07 20:15:37 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

chaosgrimm wrote:

Do you see yourself agreeing to any change ingame that lead to gankers making less informed decisions, primarily via nerfing a cargo scanner, even if something else was added to the ganking profession to compensate?


"something else", like what?


doesnt matter. i just want to know if this convo is going anywhere.

would you be willing to give up some undetermined amount of info normally updated via the cargo scanner, in exchange for a buff of an undetermined amount to an undetermined area of the ganking profession? I am wondering if you would be open to something like this in general. Because if not, we are just going to continue in a cyclical discussion
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#247 - 2014-06-07 20:19:49 UTC
I think it's balanced just fine right now, to be honest.

The smart haulers live, and make boatloads of money, the dumb ones get killed. (although not nearly often enough for my tastes)

Meanwhile the smart gankers thrive, and the dumb ones get killed by Bubakar Mahahaha.

The only people who really want things to change are the dumb haulers, because they don't like being prey, but they dislike it slightly less than they dislike effort. Which is why they want CCP to do it for them.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Iain Cariaba
#248 - 2014-06-07 20:25:23 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
doesnt matter. i just want to know if this convo is going anywhere.

This convo will never go anywhere cause you won't realize the problem isn't in the gankers having too much information, it is in the ganked refusing to take reasonable steps to prevent ganking.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#249 - 2014-06-07 20:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
i dnt think it needs to be anymore undetermined. gankers are already unsure whether they will get the loot they are after.

being the victim of a gank is clearly just so rare that many haulers can overload their freighters and still be surprised when it happens to them. clearly not enough freighters are being ganked.

one problem of lowering the accuracy of scans is that random ganks neither reward nor punish a haulers behavior. being a successful hauler becomes more about luck than preparation. edit - as would being a successful ganker.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Iain Cariaba
#250 - 2014-06-07 21:44:23 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
clearly not enough freighters are being ganked

This is true. Twisted
Dave Stark
#251 - 2014-06-07 22:00:42 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
being a successful hauler becomes more about luck than preparation.


and everyone loves RNG.
I don't think RNG has ever been a good thing, in any game, ever.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#252 - 2014-06-07 22:39:41 UTC
I hope chaosgrimm undocks when it's active.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Paranoid Loyd
#253 - 2014-06-07 23:26:27 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
I hope chaosgrimm undocks when it's active.


Lol You think with all the ignorant crap he has been spewing that he actually undocks?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#254 - 2014-06-07 23:27:50 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Arya Regnar wrote:
I hope chaosgrimm undocks when it's active.


Lol You think with all the ignorant crap he has been spewing that he actually undocks?

No but he needs to be straightened.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Sigras
Conglomo
#255 - 2014-06-07 23:46:15 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Do you see yourself agreeing to any change ingame that lead to gankers making less informed decisions, primarily via nerfing a cargo scanner, even if something else was added to the ganking profession to compensate?

"something else", like what?

doesnt matter. i just want to know if this convo is going anywhere.

would you be willing to give up some undetermined amount of info normally updated via the cargo scanner, in exchange for a buff of an undetermined amount to an undetermined area of the ganking profession? I am wondering if you would be open to something like this in general. Because if not, we are just going to continue in a cyclical discussion

It is actually in the intelligent industrialist's interest that cargo scanners exist in game.

Otherwise you'd have gankers just blowing up people randomly on the off chance that they carry valuable loot...

This would make the game strictly worse not better. Randomness never makes anything in a game better.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#256 - 2014-06-08 03:35:17 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Arya Regnar wrote:
I hope chaosgrimm undocks when it's active.


Lol You think with all the ignorant crap he has been spewing that he actually undocks?

No but he needs to be straightened.

Lol I do enjoy the fan club xD.

the rage whine is delicious.

Although, it does seem to be missing a little something.... cant quite put my finger on it... AH! gravy. It could use some gravy. Ill need to remember to pick some up off the train when it stops. Twisted
Hyacinthine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2014-06-08 05:40:35 UTC
Can't easily search within the thread and 13 pages is too many to sift through...

If you're hauling something worth ganking, why not hire some logistics escorts? Wouldn't take much to make yourself effectively invincible.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#258 - 2014-06-08 05:50:53 UTC
Hyacinthine wrote:
Can't easily search within the thread and 13 pages is too many to sift through...

If you're hauling something worth ganking, why not hire some logistics escorts? Wouldn't take much to make yourself effectively invincible.

Probably wouldn't take much hired logistics to render your load profitless anyways.

I do agree, there needs to be a bit more consequence to high sec ganking.

Security rating really means nothing in it's current mechanics. But then again, i think that Hauling across high sec is too easy too.

So I believe we need to revamp Personal Security Rating to actually mean something.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=345662&find=unread

And I also believe we need to separate the empires with low sec.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097&find=unread

This way everybody wins!

There are a lot of other things like this that need to change. But it requires 2 changes to make things better overall instead of just for one side of the coin. i.e. cloaky camping vs local and War Dec mechanics.

Now everyone go to those threads and like them and/or add your own 2 cents.
Hyacinthine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2014-06-08 06:05:46 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Hyacinthine wrote:
Can't easily search within the thread and 13 pages is too many to sift through...

If you're hauling something worth ganking, why not hire some logistics escorts? Wouldn't take much to make yourself effectively invincible.

Probably wouldn't take much hired logistics to render your load profitless anyways.


I do believe that was the point. If that's a risk of hauling, the cost has to be figured in to your business model.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#260 - 2014-06-08 06:21:49 UTC
Hyacinthine wrote:
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Hyacinthine wrote:
Can't easily search within the thread and 13 pages is too many to sift through...

If you're hauling something worth ganking, why not hire some logistics escorts? Wouldn't take much to make yourself effectively invincible.

Probably wouldn't take much hired logistics to render your load profitless anyways.


I do believe that was the point. If that's a risk of hauling, the cost has to be figured in to your business model.


Sure thing. Just to have an orientation: How much are you willing to pay for a CC from, let's say, Jita to Stacmon with 4B in valuables for your 00 life?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.