Player Features and Ideas Discussion

All Hail the T1 mining laser supremacy

The nature of EVE is to not trust anyone, and even besides that, you're putting a lot of trust in people to not mess up. When they're hauling everyone's stuff around there's a chance they'll misplace things too. What my point is here is that, unlike other fleet activities where you get isk/time paid directly to you, for mining you have to count on other people. Trust and faith in their abilities. Have you ever had someone refine all of the ore at a lower rate than you can refine, and then try to figure out the distribution of minerals? Or they want you to wait until they sell all the minerals before you get paid and then they don't get on for a week. And don't forget about people that aren't paying attention and let their lasers fall of all the time, or the hauler who doesn't have to do much of anything getting an equal share as the most dedicated and consistent miner causing animosity and the development of a rift between people. This is why incursions are the only viable fleet for profit mechanic. Because you can't be inconsistent or you'll lose your ship/spot.


So you're saying L4 payout /5 is better than 5man incursion x5????


No, the vast majority of miner's aren't solo players. Mining is just a profession that naturally resists group activity.


First of all, can we qualify what you mean by play solo? I consider myself a "solo" miner but i run an Orca for boosts and a couple of barges.

For me there is basically no significant reward for fleet mining with the exception of someone else running boosts and i get to run an extra barge. But generally, it's not a cohesive fleet, we just find our own spots and mine separately.

And if by solo you mean single account miner, then yeah, they get a bonus to their yield with mining boosts. But still they don't really need to be in the same place as everyone else. They can still be off in their own spot and still receive the boosts. But as a single account pilot, the most convenient ship to fly is the Retriever/Mackinaw because you mine for longer periods of time without having to dock undock and warp around constantly.

This is why we have this climate. I seriously doubt that the changes they made to barges in Kronos will have much of an impact on the usage percentages at all.

So please explain to me what are these "rewards" for group mining? What is this "significant reward gap" you're going on about.

I'm not sure you can survive a gank attempt by a single T2 fit Catalyst now. With full passive fleet bonuses, a shield harmonizing link without shield mindlink, tanking rigs and modules, and a DC II module you are talking about 14.5k EHP. It won't be enough therefore you have to rely on location , local ganker intelligence, D-scan, and being at the keyboard all the time.

This is why the Hulk needed more EHP - probably as much as the Mackinaw which can be fit to survive a single T2 Catalyst gank - in the 3rd June changes. Maybe CCP Fozzie can look at this at a latter date. Otherwise there will not be a significant take-up in new Hulk use.

NB. I should state I am talking about 0.5 & 0.6 systems here. 0.7 and above you might stand more chance of surviving in a Hulk given the quicker CONCORD response times.

As someone who polices asteroid belts to prevent unsustainable mining you can trust in my above statement.

first u take 50/50 to mean 50 and 50, now '5x man' means '5man x5'?? lol. ur either an idiot or obtuse.

again ur pointing out flaws that i know are very human, but dont extend to everyone ever. it is not the nature of eve to not trust anyone, if anything its more the nature of eve to only trust ppl u trust. Not everyone has the same experience with other players as u, and if u cant trust other players thats ur problem. Some ppl are able to forge fruitful relationships with trust. CEO's hand out roles to other players when the work load becomes too much for them alone. Corps can share ships like orcas to be available for those that can fly them so they dnt have to rely on ppl being online or several ppl having their own orcas. Its more efficient.

From what ur saying, its ppl that resist group activity, not the mechanic of mining. U urself seem like an anti-social player because u feel u cant trust anyone and u seem to demand payment immediately rather than allowing time for investment or growth (and add to that the disingenuous response quoted above limiting the amount of ppl that want to be around u), so there is little wonder that ur having a hard time making group play work. Lets take this:



Ur actually working with another player here. Just because u choose to spread out to avoid cannibalistic mining doesnt mean ur not working together. If that extra barge is not significant to u then why do u use it when ur not boosting? The truth is, it is.

What u could do further, with a little trust, is share a hauler. This would free up another account. Even if ur in different belts, a miasmos or an orca with a tractor and mwd makes a good runner, and having a hauler separate to a booster means u dnt have to shut off boosts every time u go to station.

The fleet history records what miner has mined how much of which rocks, so u know who's owed what. It takes a little going through, but if finding out exactly how much everyone has mined is important to u, then u put the work in. Or make a third party software do it for u. However much is skimmed off of each miner for the hauler and booster are up to u and ur buddy. Seeing as u and ur partner are both using one alt each to not mine, they may not need paying at all.

As i keep saying, the rewards are there if u put the work in and have ppl u can trust. Theres no set way of working together. The above description is just something u could do to get the most out per account and still monitor exactly how much each person has mined.



no need to thank me. ur welcome.

Too bad you're wrong.

... and it's time CCP stops listening to AFK miners that can't fit and fly their ships.

Google "power creep" to see why yours is a bad idea.

Also, CCP doesn't want mineral prices to go down, which is all your idea would accomplish.

Only if you don't care to use it for mining.

I will check out Daichi's hulk fit above but it doesn't look right. Not sure what his reference to blasters meant as all competent gankers will use blasters. Also a T1 MLU and no mining drones isn't going to do much for the yield.

I still think a miners primary defence is location along with an up to date contacts list and local intelligence. Once the ganker/s are in-system your **** is toast. Active defence modules are a definite yes though as a lot of gankers will pass you by then.

And no. I'm never AFK, on autopilot, or mining. Too bad you're wrong.

Though every thing you said is true, what most stood out for me is the last line.

You are a ganker. It does NOT matter what you call it or why you do it. You prey on unarmed miners.

I like your idea.

I propose a slightly different idea... A "Q-rig". It turns the Mining hull into a secretive combat ship.
Let's look at one designed for the Venture mining frigate (or the prospect)...

each rig:
requires 1000-1600 m3 of a ore hold
adds one high slot (small weapons turret or missile launcher)
may add a flat bonus to shield, shield regen, cap, and/or cap regen
may add 5 m3 to drone bay and 5 mb to bandwidth

Since the Venture could mount 3 of these (with very little ore hold left), the defensive buffs and the 3 high slots for weapons could make the equipped Venture a true surprise to the 'ganker-fitted' destroyer coming in for an 'easy kill'.