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no one wants to say it? HAMs are crap
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Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-06-07 11:12:40 UTC
They go against most turret fitting rules.

They take more grid to fit which means less tank, which is what you need in a close fight.

They have worse hitting ability than HMLs where every other close range turret gets a huge tracking boost (blasters/pulses/autos over rails/beams/artys)

They do some more dps to large targets, usually bigger hulls than you are flying.


they SUCK

HAM love please ccp. The testing phase is over and they are NOT GOOD. also would it hurt to have a few sizes?

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Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-06-07 11:17:46 UTC
Also you try fitting hams to any missile ship and see how much fitting is left compared to any close range turret ship.

yeah. not alot to play with.

some ships you fit hams and a mwd and you are basically done. NOT COOL

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Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#3 - 2014-06-07 11:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Maeltstome
Your entire point is voided by the assertion that they are worse at applying damage than HML's. This is untrue. They have higher Exp.Velo and lower Exp.Rad.

I'm unsure what point you're trying to make. Right now HAM's are my favourite missile system other than lights. They are just *better* than HML's but with poorer range.

Your argument that they should cost less to fit is perhaps with merit, but Missiles != turrets. That extra fitting buys you better damage application.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#4 - 2014-06-07 11:36:36 UTC
A fully skilled pilot will have 152 m/s for an explosion velocity and 94m for explosion radius on HAMs. An average cruiser (125 m) will start to speed tank it once it exceeds 202 m/s. MWDing? 1212 m/s. A web is mandatory.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#5 - 2014-06-07 11:39:58 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
A fully skilled pilot will have 152 m/s for an explosion velocity and 94m for explosion radius on HAMs. An average cruiser (125 m) will start to speed tank it once it exceeds 202 m/s. MWDing? 1212 m/s. A web is mandatory.


Also true for turrets to apply full damage at transversal speeds. As range increases, falloff kills damage too.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#6 - 2014-06-07 13:49:47 UTC
More critically any kind of AB will reduce your applied damage quite considerably, this is also before considering boosters and implants or links.

Missiles are a fleet level weapon system and work best in tangeant with a brawler tackle while you sit on the edge of point range applying EWAR and sometimes quite considerable DPS with flexible damage type.

Consider (for shield tanking fleets)
3x moa w/scram+web each
5x caracal w/ HAMs and painters
2x scythe for reps.

10 people and quite a horrifying amount of dps.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-06-07 13:54:33 UTC
hams are fine.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#8 - 2014-06-07 14:30:06 UTC
OP has no clue what he's talking about. Good rant.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
#9 - 2014-06-07 18:13:28 UTC
Medium ACs suck too

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#10 - 2014-06-07 19:00:48 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Medium ACs suck too


Shots fires :)
GreenSeed
#11 - 2014-06-07 19:05:45 UTC
HAMs are really good, yes they have some fitting constraints, but i can hardly think of any ship crippled by them. the only problem i see is with their T2 ammo, Javelins make you wish you had HMLs (yeah, i know, weird), and Rages will just sit on the hold of your hulls, until one day you decide not to even bother. and since EVE hates you, chances are that day you get a target that could see full application and be worth eating the extra reload cycle. :/

and as mentioned already, the Weapon system is extremely hard to balance, the golden rule of eve is "but what would 50 people do with this?" and missiles have historically been broken specifically on those scenarios. making HAMs any better will just tilt the Doctrine meta on a direction no one likes. IMHO
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
#12 - 2014-06-07 19:43:26 UTC
Like ppl said above, bring webs & paint.
They in fact do have longer range than the other high dps turrets.
They never miss.
No cap & selectable dmg.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-06-07 20:01:32 UTC
Adriana Nolen wrote:
Like ppl said above, bring webs & paint.
They in fact do have longer range than the other high dps turrets.
They never miss.
No cap & selectable dmg.


i agree.

how often to you carry tps or tcs for you r turrets, oh yeah and theres no te or tc for hams.

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Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-06-07 20:28:51 UTC
Hams are fine, ham caracals, ham orthrus, ham cerb are all absolutely nasty, ham tengu is really strong for pve, ham legion is good for lowsec, ham sacrilege is also pretty fine
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-06-07 21:27:32 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Medium ACs suck too


Shots fires :)


Is true though, medium acs are perhaps the worst damage system in eve right now (just up ther with beams and hmls).
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#16 - 2014-06-07 23:00:56 UTC
Yes, HAMs are crap. HMs are crap too.

Both weapons systems should be consolidated into a single medium missile system with meaningful rigging options.

Oh god.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-06-08 04:50:02 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
Adriana Nolen wrote:
Like ppl said above, bring webs & paint.
They in fact do have longer range than the other high dps turrets.
They never miss.
No cap & selectable dmg.


i agree.

how often to you carry tps or tcs for you r turrets, oh yeah and theres no te or tc for hams.

I can't but notice you left out the web off your list which is what we told you you needed.

To preempt that question how often do I fit a web to my turret ships? Nearly always.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Marc Durant
#18 - 2014-06-08 10:18:52 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Your entire point is voided by the assertion that they are worse at applying damage than HML's. This is untrue. They have higher Exp.Velo and lower Exp.Rad.

I'm unsure what point you're trying to make. Right now HAM's are my favourite missile system other than lights. They are just *better* than HML's but with poorer range.

Your argument that they should cost less to fit is perhaps with merit, but Missiles != turrets. That extra fitting buys you better damage application.



Underlined for importance.

Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#19 - 2014-06-08 10:30:41 UTC
Missiles have problems, but HAMs are one of the better missile launcher types, not one of the worst. Especially on bonused hulls like the Sacrilege.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#20 - 2014-06-08 17:49:27 UTC
While I do agree with the OP's observation that launchers are generally bass-ackwards in terms of fitting, consider this:

1. HAMs may have less damage than close-range turrets, but they do that damage uniformly from zero out to max range. No turret can say that. (Large engagement envelope)

2. Your own movement impacts the damage application of guns, but not for missiles. (Freedom of movement)

3. Simple damage type selection = exploit those resist holes.

Combine 1&2 and you see why HAMs are so good for kiting fits: uniform damage application over a relatively long range (especially on on bonused hulls) and no damage reduction due to your own movement. But since they don't do more damage at close range like turrets, they're not as well suited for brawling fits.


There are some issues with missiles in general, but relative to the other missiles HAMs are pretty much fine.

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Missiles are a fleet level weapon system and work best in tangeant with a brawler tackle while you sit on the edge of point range applying EWAR and sometimes quite considerable DPS with flexible damage type.

Consider (for shield tanking fleets)
3x moa w/scram+web each
5x caracal w/ HAMs and painters
2x scythe for reps.

10 people and quite a horrifying amount of dps.


This.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
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