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EVE's "No Fight" Culture

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Solecist Project
#221 - 2014-06-07 09:23:02 UTC
In every system? Cool!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2014-06-07 09:48:45 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
back on topic: Until people leave there gangs and either forget about stats or dont have stats to be tracked, most PVP is uneventful and boring due to become a mathematical equation.

Killboard stats depend on how you read them.

For example, K/D ratio and ISK efficiency don't mean anything by themselves, for a single pilot. A few gatecamps and maybe a couple of lucky pods will easily bloat those numbers.

I personally look at:

- Total Kills+Deaths (regardless of K/D ratio) --> experience

- Active systems --> does he just lazily stay in his home system? does he have experience in different parts of space (low/null/wh)?

- Losses --> are the ship/fits interesting, or just unimaginative FOTMs? are they varied or is the guy just flying a single go-to ship? is he fielding some serious ISK or just throwaway T1 frigs? how many and what did it take to kill him?

- Kills --> what kind of stuff is he going up against? how many people were on the kill? is he consistently among top damage (if flying dps) or is he just tagging along for the wh*re?

- Solo activity --> self-explanatory.


TL;DR killboards are fine. Including links on killmails would make them perfect, imo.
In any case, if people are just pvp-ing to bloat K/D or ISK efficiency they're either silly or bad pilots or burnt-out or a combination of all three. Removing KBs won't fix that.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#223 - 2014-06-07 19:03:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Maeltstome
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
back on topic: Until people leave there gangs and either forget about stats or dont have stats to be tracked, most PVP is uneventful and boring due to become a mathematical equation.

Killboard stats depend on how you read them.

For example, K/D ratio and ISK efficiency don't mean anything by themselves, for a single pilot. A few gatecamps and maybe a couple of lucky pods will easily bloat those numbers.

I personally look at:

- Total Kills+Deaths (regardless of K/D ratio) --> experience

- Active systems --> does he just lazily stay in his home system? does he have experience in different parts of space (low/null/wh)?

- Losses --> are the ship/fits interesting, or just unimaginative FOTMs? are they varied or is the guy just flying a single go-to ship? is he fielding some serious ISK or just throwaway T1 frigs? how many and what did it take to kill him?

- Kills --> what kind of stuff is he going up against? how many people were on the kill? is he consistently among top damage (if flying dps) or is he just tagging along for the wh*re?

- Solo activity --> self-explanatory.


TL;DR killboards are fine. Including links on killmails would make them perfect, imo.
In any case, if people are just pvp-ing to bloat K/D or ISK efficiency they're either silly or bad pilots or burnt-out or a combination of all three. Removing KBs won't fix that.


Efficiency is a single stat and the only thing people care about. That why they blob and gank and avoid slightly fair fights. You're trying to use logic to explain an illogical stat... unless its removed entirely, people will always chase the number.

I doubt that will happen though.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#224 - 2014-06-07 21:14:42 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2014-06-07 22:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Maeltstome wrote:


Efficiency is a single stat and the only thing people care about.


Which is comparable to players chasing isk/per hour running PVE. Naturally, this makes them risk averse, due to not wanting to take losses in order to max their kills/min their losses. Therefore, they are carebears. That's what the efficiency stats tell me - who's a carebear and who isn't. Carebears aren't playing the game, they're working a job - for them, EVE has become a job, and those stats are their quota.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#226 - 2014-06-07 23:48:47 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:


Efficiency is a single stat and the only thing people care about.


Which is comparable to players chasing isk/per hour running PVE. Naturally, this makes them risk averse, due to not wanting to take losses in order to max their kills/min their losses. Therefore, they are carebears. That's what the efficiency stats tell me - who's a carebear and who isn't. Carebears aren't playing the game, they're working a job - for them, EVE has become a job, and those stats are their quota.


I actually fly 'cheap' ships for the challenge. It's fun being in stuff that's powerful and OP when you're new to Eve - but i like the challenge of finding a low cost way of punishing players who do this. You always see 'leet' pvp'ers in extreme faction fitted variants of the latest FOTM. You can fit unpopular ships to directly counter them and sometimes it baits a fight.

Back to what you where saying though: You are right... it's basically carebearing. people don't fight unless they have to. And in 0.0 that involves structure bashing.

I liked the idea of the ESS in ratting systems but as long as you can deploy them *IN ANOMALIES*, this system wont force carebears to fight. It seems like a pretty large oversight IMO.