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Last thread about CSM was closed for not being constructive... Take 2 on the CSM
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Handsome Hussein

Likes received: 270

#101 - 2011-12-05 08:46:21 UTC

Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:

Handsome ******* wrote:

First Lieutenant Dan wrote:

And so it has begun, all according to plan.

Well played, sir. Now let's hope this **** thread actually dies.

Needed steps

1. look at thread
2. dont give a ****
3. walk away

/see no posting..
more people do that better chance it stays burried.

Thank you for the concise instructions.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.

Andski

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 11,585

#102 - 2011-12-05 08:46:57 UTC

Fix My Lasers wrote:

Andski wrote:

Psychophantic wrote:

Andski wrote:

"I'm a badposting forum alt and I'm too dumb to get a proper hisec voting bloc, the CSM should be disbanded instead!!!!!!"

Look. It's a a goon. Shouldn't you be playing sticky biscuit?

hybrid rebalancing, supercapital balancing, time dilation are all things that only benefit goonswarm and nobody else at all anywhere lmao

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but "hybrid rebalancing, supercapital balancing, time dilation" sounds to me like "nothing happend".
For a carebear like me those changes didn't help at all.

i'm sorry that you want ABCs in highsec or soloable incursions or whatever but lol

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Jaroslav Unwanted

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 1,380

#103 - 2011-12-05 08:48:17 UTC

Fix My Lasers wrote:

Andski wrote:

Psychophantic wrote:

Andski wrote:

"I'm a badposting forum alt and I'm too dumb to get a proper hisec voting bloc, the CSM should be disbanded instead!!!!!!"

Look. It's a a goon. Shouldn't you be playing sticky biscuit?

hybrid rebalancing, supercapital balancing, time dilation are all things that only benefit goonswarm and nobody else at all anywhere lmao

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but "hybrid rebalancing, supercapital balancing, time dilation" sounds to me like "nothing happend".
For a carebear like me those changes didn't help at all.

But it did not harm you ..

Got some ideas. Push them forward. Make an discussion. Provide some well written document. Consult with CSM*

Profit ???

Its not like CSMs are some unknown force. They are well known. And as far as i know they are "normal" people. So if someone contact them and they have time for rational discussion .. "you know how it works. "

Fix My Lasers

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 97

#104 - 2011-12-05 09:07:17 UTC

Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:

Fix My Lasers wrote:

Andski wrote:

Psychophantic wrote:

Andski wrote:

"I'm a badposting forum alt and I'm too dumb to get a proper hisec voting bloc, the CSM should be disbanded instead!!!!!!"

Look. It's a a goon. Shouldn't you be playing sticky biscuit?

hybrid rebalancing, supercapital balancing, time dilation are all things that only benefit goonswarm and nobody else at all anywhere lmao

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but "hybrid rebalancing, supercapital balancing, time dilation" sounds to me like "nothing happend".
For a carebear like me those changes didn't help at all.

Yes, it didn't harm me. It was just sad because something new came out and there was nothing for me or any other carebear.

Also I think we both know how suggestion or ideas threads end up with trolling or holy war. Look at the goon guy that already throws mindless trolls: "i'm sorry that you want ABCs in highsec or soloable incursions or whatever but lol"
Carebears want this and null people want that.

Good example: I want my lasers to be useful in PvE because there is a lot of NPCs that have high EM/Thermal resists. Amarr ships are the worst in missions. Therefore I want selectable damage types for Amarr lasers.
So people that live in null start trolling/whining that Amarr is fine and their ships are good in fleet and so on. While it doesn't concern PvE.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Ten Bulls

Sons of Olsagard

Likes received: 286

#105 - 2011-12-05 09:08:31 UTC

Ai Shun wrote:

Ten Bulls wrote:

I support compulsory voting in RL

I'm curious. Why do you support this?

Asking because to a point, I do too, but only if the ballot paper had an option for "None of the above" in the cases where I don't find myself agreeing with the policies of any candidate.

Currently the only way to cast a no-confidence vote is either through a spoiled ballot or by not voting.

I believe in compulsory voting because people are inherently lazy, but thats not a good enough reason to avoid your democratic duty.

Spoiled ballot is reasonable choice, at least society can still measure the peoples "lack of faith" in their current choices.

Andski

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 11,585

#106 - 2011-12-05 09:23:24 UTC | Edited by: Andski

Fix My Lasers wrote:

Good example: I want my lasers to be useful in PvE because there is a lot of NPCs that have high EM/Thermal resists. Amarr ships are the worst in missions. Therefore I want selectable damage types for Amarr lasers.
So people that live in null start trolling/whining that Amarr is fine and their ships are good in fleet and so on. While it doesn't concern PvE.

If only you could train other races' ships!

And really, with lasers you don't have to reload (faction/T2 crystals take forever to burn through so that's not an argument) and pulses with scorch have a hilarious optimal, and it really doesn't make sense that lasers would deal kinetic and explosive damage, now does it?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Ai Shun

Likes received: 1,200

#107 - 2011-12-05 09:37:18 UTC

Ten Bulls wrote:

I believe in compulsory voting because people are inherently lazy, but thats not a good enough reason to avoid your democratic duty.

Good point, thank you for the response. What about the risk of random voting? If somebody is forced to vote when they are not sufficiently motivated / educated / invested in their democracy, would they actually vote for somebody that represents what they believe in or would they vote for the one with the funniest looking avatar?

Like Fix My Lasers' poll. I'd vote for "Both", because it would be the win-win choice. But equally, I can see people voting for the "kill carebear" option for the lulz or the self interested to vote for PvE or PvP exclusively.

Hmmm. I suppose that is the core principle. At the end it will hopefully reflect the thought of the participants.

Fix My Lasers

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 97

#108 - 2011-12-05 09:37:38 UTC | Edited by: Fix My Lasers

Andski wrote:

Fix My Lasers wrote:

If only you could train other races' ships!

This is it.
After I made my noobish Amarr choice I started training others and end up being able to use every marauder.
Even have Marauders V on one of my chars.
From time to time I get bored by golem, then vargur, then kronos that still performs so-so after hybrid buff and then paladin that can't do well 50% of missions unlike others.
If Amarr performed well at missions I wouldn't unsub that char.

Anyways there is nothing going on in high sec. Same as always which is sad.

Andski wrote:

And really, with lasers you don't have to reload (faction/T2 crystals take forever to burn through so that's not an argument) and pulses with scorch have a hilarious optimal, and it really doesn't make sense that lasers would deal kinetic and explosive damage, now does it?

Being able to choose THERM-only damage whould make a huge difference.

Also: http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/items/charge/advanced_pulse_laser_crystal/blaze_l/

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#109 - 2011-12-05 09:46:24 UTC | Edited by: Tippia

Fix My Lasers wrote:

Bad example, since you willfully ignored the fact that lasers do excellent damage against 5 out of the 8 NPC types (and sufficient damage with the right crystals against two more) and that the damage type restriction (which isn't quite as restricted as you made it out to be, nor is it unique to Amarr) is connected to a set of pretty nice benefits…

Just because people corrected you on these glaring omissions doesn't mean that it was a bunch of null players trolling you.

Ten Bulls

Sons of Olsagard

Likes received: 286

#110 - 2011-12-05 09:49:02 UTC

Ai Shun wrote:

Ten Bulls wrote:

I believe in compulsory voting because people are inherently lazy, but thats not a good enough reason to avoid your democratic duty.

There will always be "uninformed voters", people who vote for someone for the wrong reasons (wrong according to serious voters), but they probably cancel themselves out.

There is a danger of the donkey vote, where people just vote in the simplest way they can rather than voting informal (spoiling their ballot)

My personal belief, is that if people know in advance they have to do something, and feel even in a small way that its in their best interest to do it, they will take some time to evaluate their choices, talk about it with others. It would be better if people voted for the best person to lead the country/organization rather than the best person to serve their own interests, but nothing is perfect.

Bat Country Pandemic Horde 19,001
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Horde Likes received: 19,001	#111 - 2011-12-05 09:49:45 UTC 3 So let me get this right. People who dont care about the game enough to vote are angry at people who did care enough to put in the time to become CSM and got voted in by other people who cared about the game enough to vote for them. This smacks of the silant majority argument.

Fix My Lasers

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 97

#112 - 2011-12-05 09:57:30 UTC

baltec1 wrote:

So let me get this right.

People who dont care about the game enough to vote are angry at people who did care enough to put in the time to become CSM and got voted in by other people who cared about the game enough to vote for them.

This smacks of the silant majority argument.

Most people play the game without wasting their time on forums since 85% of forum people are trolls.
If I was at home at the moment I wouldn't waste my time here too. When I lived in null and had a lot of time at home I didn't pay attention to forum too - it's better to do something fun then reading trolls.
The logic is quite simple.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

baltec1

Bat Country

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 19,001

#113 - 2011-12-05 10:00:22 UTC

Fix My Lasers wrote:

This is why thousands have died in the gal ice belts.

Lord Zim

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,451

#114 - 2011-12-05 10:17:12 UTC

Fix My Lasers wrote:

Yes, it didn't harm me. It was just sad because something new came out and there was nothing for me or any other carebear.

Just like the rest of the game the past 2 years, and at least nullsec was beginning to stagnate hard because of it. So crucible is an attempt to try to at least partially rectify that.

Also, don't tell me nothing came of crucible that you'd care about, there are tons of UI changes and new boats which can be used with a fairly high amount of damage for a fairly low SP cost.

Fix My Lasers wrote:

Actually, I'd argue that lasers have a huge bonus in the form of not needing to be reloaded, which is useful both in PVP and PVE (PVE because it means less ammo costs, and you can do missions in deep nullsec without a particular base of operations for longer), which is offset by the fact that you have limited damage types.

Rat somewhere which is vulnerable to EM/Therm, or change the tools which you use?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Fix My Lasers

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 97

#115 - 2011-12-05 10:54:45 UTC | Edited by: Fix My Lasers

Lord Zim wrote:

Fix My Lasers wrote:

Yes, it didn't harm me. It was just sad because something new came out and there was nothing for me or any other carebear.

Fix My Lasers wrote:

Few facts:
- New BCs are useless on missions because they have no drones. Only Talos have them, but it is a blaster boat = useless too.
1st scrambling frig will be your death.
- T1 laser crystals are useless. T2 or faction ones are the only valid choice for missions.
Amarr ships already pay for ammo via useless bonus that reduce cap use.
- I never lost even a bit of my DPS while reloading guns on Vargur or Kronos.

Anyways this arguing won't help improving the game because no one listens and CSMs are busy fixing null.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#116 - 2011-12-05 11:04:39 UTC

Fix My Lasers wrote:

- T1 laser crystals are useless. T2 or faction ones are the only valid choice for missions.

This is not a fact — it's just a limitation you've set up for yourself. It's also largely inconsequential.

Quote:

- I never lost even a bit of my DPS while reloading guns on Vargur or Kronos.

This is false by very definition of “not firing”.

Quote:

Anyways this arguing won't help improving the game because no one listens and CSMs are busy fixing null.

Maybe because null (and lowsec) are in more need of fixing?

Tie Fighters Inc 1,329
rodyas Tie Fighters Inc Likes received: 1,329	#117 - 2011-12-05 11:30:47 UTC Would a CSM support the idea of WHs randomly appearing and depositing ABC ores randomly through out hi sec space? Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Terminal Insanity

KarmaFleet

Goonswarm Federation

Likes received: 1,019

#118 - 2011-12-05 11:39:12 UTC

Zevina wrote:

I am a highsec carebear too and quite enjoy Eve as such.

When I look at the CSM priorities and people it consists of its probably true a vital and big part is absolutely not represented by the CSM. Though I like the new Crucible very much I would also wish for a more PvE focused and laid back expansion in the future that will be more interesting for the non-PvP players out there.

A change in voting mechanics will surely help to give us highsec people a louder voice. So please make it happen.

Make an ingame Voting (maybe at startup like issued) and make it simple and understandable what each players goals are and most importantly what sort of player he considers himself (business tycoon, alliance leader, mission runner, wormhole dweller etc)

You mean like Incursions? or PI? or Wormholes? or any of the tons of other PvE content CCP has put out each patch while ignoring the PvP'res? How can you possibly claim that CCP has been ignoring PvE'ers? They've released the FIRST PVP patch in... years... and you're claiming CCP never listens to PvE'ers because of it? Incursions alone have made 0.0 space pointless. The real money now is in highsec incursions. You highsec dwellers wont stop complaining untill TQ is like sisi, by which time everyone will be bored of it since theres no risk left in the game

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Andski

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 11,585

#119 - 2011-12-05 11:46:37 UTC | Edited by: Andski

Terminal Insanity wrote:

The real money now is in highsec incursions.

That's only true because the pubbies that run them try to farm them as fast as possible with 2bn ISK faction BS, while few people would be dumb enough to do that with low/nullsec incursions.

Seriously, a constellation is under attack by pirates and CONCORD still manages to respond instantly to anything that happens in there, that's hilarious

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Khanh'rhh

Sparkle Motion.

Likes received: 3,519

#120 - 2011-12-05 11:49:24 UTC

Highsec bears outnumber null players by 4:1

If you're still complaining the voting system is skewed in favour of the null players (and the system does NOT use proportional representation) then you're doing it wrong.

During the last elections, most of the people I spoke to in highsec didn't know what they were.

That kind of apathy shouldn't be present on the CSM

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

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Jita Park Speakers Corner

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Sons of Olsagard

Sunshine and Lollipops

Bat Country

Pandemic Horde

Gallente Federation

Tie Fighters Inc

KarmaFleet

Goonswarm Federation

Sparkle Motion.