These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

PI Costs
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Broomhilde
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#21 - 2011-12-02 03:05:54 UTC
I'm done with CCP, the taxes are unreasonable. Sure I can go out and gouge customers by charging more for my resources, but frankly I'm tired of CCP and their bullshyt.

Bye.
Jim Hooknose
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2011-12-02 03:23:54 UTC
Dr Mercy wrote:
Hmm, so in your view lowsec POCOs can't realistically be used to generate income via third parties using the planets for PI - only for corps/alliances to undercut highsec CO taxes?

A margin of only 5% doesn't sound a particularly large incentive for these kinds of players to invest in the POCO structures (100 mil) and operate under the risk present in lowsec. A mere 5% premium for operating in the safety of highsec? When I look at it from this point of view 10% doesn't even seem like a large enough margin either!


Alright, then add convenience bonuses to the POCOs. No messages to wait x number of seconds when you use a POCO.
Make them cheaper in ISK and slightly cheaper in LP. Lord knows the things will get blown up left and right.

You forget that if the POCO owners place even a small tax on the export/imports they will have a passive way to generate corp funds. Placed in the right spot the POCO could make a sizable amount of ISK, plus saving the owner's tax fees. Which is great, that aspect of the PI change is fine.

It's the completely wrecking highsec PI taxes that I mind.
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#23 - 2011-12-02 14:23:53 UTC
PipBrown wrote:
I don't understand the fuss from player unhappy with the changes to PI taxes. Why can't they just increase the price of the product to offset any incurred taxes.


Because some people won't have to pay taxes at all when they have POCOs, so anyone making PI in highsec is screwed and needs to find something else to do.
Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#24 - 2011-12-02 14:37:16 UTC
You know what I just realised? This is the exact same **** as T2 BPOs. Sure, those in low/null with their own POCOs and 0% tax can make more Isk with PI. But they had to spend a nice chunk in order to do so and also have to defend that chunk or replace it periodically.

If the market demand for a given PI product is lower than the supply of that product coming from 0% POCO taxed sources then they can set the price and keep those in high-sec or using interbus COs out of the market. Price too low? Well, you'd have struggled to move it anyway so feel smug that you worked it out before spending on it. You did check prices before jumping in right?

If the market demand for a given PI product is higher than the supply of that product coming from high-sec/interbus CO sources then it is those people that set the price. Price too low? Blame people that can't add up or realise that the profit that you want isn't the profit that people are happy to give you.

Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs: ** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 **The Full Pocket Aggro blog:  http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ **Now showing: **Margin Trading Scams
ZapStar253
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-12-03 05:43:42 UTC
Maybe CCP needs more PI targets for DUST..so a forced migration to Low Sec?Idea
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-12-04 02:15:20 UTC
Just relax.

PI prices will adjust to reflect the price of doing business in highsec because that is where most PI will continue to be done. Your profits will be fine. Manufacturers in lowsec and null will just make more profit. That is all.
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#27 - 2011-12-04 03:13:17 UTC
Buyers orders in Jita are below 1.35M for 4 of the P4. Why would I pay 135k of taxes ?

Organic Mortar Applicators -> 1.025M, taxes should be 102.5k

Even more, I have to pay SCC taxes aswell... Can't make profit. Period.

I get more profit with mining, much more, even in highsec.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#28 - 2011-12-04 03:28:26 UTC
Esunisen wrote:
Buyers orders in Jita are below 1.35M for 4 of the P4. Why would I pay 135k of taxes ?


And last summer you paid 50k ISK tariff on those P4s and they were only selling for 500k to 750k. So your net per item went up (and your profit margin probably also went up a bit due to increased demand for P4s).
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-12-04 04:51:21 UTC
Esunisen wrote:
Buyers orders in Jita are below 1.35M for 4 of the P4. Why would I pay 135k of taxes ?

Organic Mortar Applicators -> 1.025M, taxes should be 102.5k

Even more, I have to pay SCC taxes aswell... Can't make profit. Period.

I get more profit with mining, much more, even in highsec.


If you see something on the market that, by your calculation, is made at a loss, instead of whining you are supposed to buy it and relist at a price where producer makes a profit.

The prices are still moving. Builders that use PI goods are naturally resisting rising prices but as long as PI builders refuse to sell at a loss, the prices will rise.

Econ 101.

And low/null manufacturing is so small percentage of PI that high sec PI makers will dictate the final price.

Heck, if you are unhappy with the price, just keep stockpiling. The price will go up. Then you sell them all in one go when the price readjusts to a level you find reasonable. I'm myself doing exactly that with some other goods.
electrostatus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-12-04 06:52:13 UTC
You'd be surprised how many people will sell at a loss.

Asteroid Timer: Know exactly when that roid depletes! PI Profit Calculator: calculates your profits and taxes of any PI product depending on how you built them!
Terisok
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2011-12-04 07:58:08 UTC
The interbus customs office "only" have 15 million hit points.

This is alot to handle alone, but it CAN be done. My suggestion would be to make some friends and get them to help you.

I myself just set up my own POCO. I actually got the local pirates to help me out - turns out they aren't that happy about PI taxes either. With 4 ships it took us about 1.5 hours to pop the Interbus customs office. This is MUCH easier and MUCH faster than a POS bash.

Don't want to trust other players? Get yourself a nice, cheap, expendable high DPS Amarr ship (see: Oracle), go out to some backwater low sec system with an updated implantless clone and go AFK while your lasers do the rest of the work for you. If someone pops and pods you, then try again in a different system and/or a different time.

OR you could hire someone to pop some Interbus customs office for you. I'm sure you could find someone willing to do this for you - for the right price.
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#32 - 2011-12-04 09:26:53 UTC
Jim Hooknose wrote:

To sum it up:
+1 non-empire space and -1 empire = BAD
+1 non-empire space and no adjustment to empire = GOOD

Hell even,

+2 non-empire space and no adjustment to empire = GOOD



+1 non-empire space and -1 empire = PI goods become more valuable

+1 non-empire space and no adjustment to empire = Inflation
+2 non-empire space and no adjustment to empire = even more inflation

Inflation is Bad.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#33 - 2011-12-04 10:05:07 UTC
THe problem is that as things stand it's -1 to non Empire, -1 to Empire. The long term effects are not yet clear, but it is likely top drive T2 higher. Which is bad for new players, and hence, bad for the game.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#34 - 2011-12-04 14:11:48 UTC
PipBrown wrote:
I don't understand the fuss from player unhappy with the changes to PI taxes. Why can't they just increase the price of the product to offset any incurred taxes.



Offsetting the cost would work if missions made more isk, then you could easily raise your prices to compensate and the majority of the playerbase would be there still to greet you. But I only make so much isk from missions this is more like people not making house payments and you are wondering why its so hard to pay more so you dont lose money as well or so.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-12-04 17:46:20 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
THe problem is that as things stand it's -1 to non Empire, -1 to Empire. The long term effects are not yet clear, but it is likely top drive T2 higher. Which is bad for new players, and hence, bad for the game.


I disagree, higher T2 prices make T1 more competitive which is BETTER for new players.
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#36 - 2011-12-04 17:50:05 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Heck, if you are unhappy with the price, just keep stockpiling. The price will go up. Then you sell them all in one go when the price readjusts to a level you find reasonable. I'm myself doing exactly that with some other goods.


If I stockpile I make negative income because I still have to pay the taxes to import/export, you should read Econ 101 again Roll
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#37 - 2011-12-04 18:27:46 UTC
So errrr... no when figures that a lot of the market is stock pile because when CCP says they are raising taxes on a product in a month that's what you would do. I made some easy ISK from this.

How long has Crucible been out? Feedback will take a while.

I'm making alright money for something which takes me about 15mins a day to do. Breaking even at about 5 days then making a about ~5 million a day with minimal effort.

Oh no wait it's rubbish everyone quit.
Xuzi
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2011-12-05 08:54:47 UTC
Get a grip folks. PI products adjusted drastically from their original NPC prices when PI was introduced and have been in constant flux ever since. These readjusted base prices are a relatively dramatic change to tax costs that will have a correspondingly dramatic impact on market price.

Overwhelming demand is still out there, as long as there is demand there is potential for profit, as long as there is a potential for profit there will be an impulse to supply.

Changes happen to the economy all the time in this game. Adaptation or stagnation? Which sounds like more fun?

I love it!
Xuzi
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2011-12-05 09:04:23 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
THe problem is that as things stand it's -1 to non Empire, -1 to Empire. The long term effects are not yet clear, but it is likely top drive T2 higher. Which is bad for new players, and hence, bad for the game.

In the majority of cases, PI products are only a small fraction of T2 manufacturing costs. Especially true with T2 ship hulls. If you want cheaper T2 hulls, talk to the null sec moon miners. If anything higher PI prices allow individual PI producers to take a bite out of all those wallets maintaining null sec towers. A very small bite.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2011-12-05 09:07:52 UTC
Esunisen wrote:
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Heck, if you are unhappy with the price, just keep stockpiling. The price will go up. Then you sell them all in one go when the price readjusts to a level you find reasonable. I'm myself doing exactly that with some other goods.


If I stockpile I make negative income because I still have to pay the taxes to import/export, you should read Econ 101 again Roll

So sell enough to enable you to keep paying the taxes and whatever other expenses you may have and stockpile the rest until you see the prices are getting up to a reasonable level?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Previous page123Next page