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Plex Farmer Check

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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#101 - 2014-06-05 22:06:25 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
I really would love to know what in the "actual mechanics" defines winning. Because there's nothing there (aside from maybe flipping the entire warzone) that would constitute a win.
Yeah I can't believe that I, as a winner of FW, am trying to explain anything to somebody who couldn't win.
Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#102 - 2014-06-05 22:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cromwell Savage
Cearain wrote:
Val Erian wrote:
.... Thought this might be a useful thread about current status of FW plex farmers after Kronos..... Oops

but its turned into "What does Cearnain think about FW yet again" thread.


Haven't your fellow gallente pilots filled you in?

Farmers don't bust bunkers so they are irrelevant to faction war.



And all that time that they run the contest % up as they farm isn't a factor?

Farmers made taking systems easier as the "core" FW corps didn't have to dedicate as much effort to actually grinding the contest % up...and just had to focus on the coordination of finalizing vulnerable status and then the effort to flip the ihub.

Farmers had a massive impact. I've nearly quit this game due to amount of effort it has taken to keep our home system free of these douche rockets. Best thing ever that o-plexing has been 'nerfed'....

PS - already regretting replying to a Cearain threadnought...
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#103 - 2014-06-06 00:19:54 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#104 - 2014-06-06 01:16:49 UTC
Cromwell Savage wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Val Erian wrote:
.... Thought this might be a useful thread about current status of FW plex farmers after Kronos..... Oops

but its turned into "What does Cearnain think about FW yet again" thread.


Haven't your fellow gallente pilots filled you in?

Farmers don't bust bunkers so they are irrelevant to faction war.



And all that time that they run the contest % up as they farm isn't a factor?

Farmers made taking systems easier as the "core" FW corps didn't have to dedicate as much effort to actually grinding the contest % up...and just had to focus on the coordination of finalizing vulnerable status and then the effort to flip the ihub.

Farmers had a massive impact. I've nearly quit this game due to amount of effort it has taken to keep our home system free of these douche rockets. ...


I don't mean to upset you, but your on my side of this argument. I agree with what you wrote above.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#105 - 2014-06-06 03:01:57 UTC
Saying that people who dont like evasion farmers are on 'your side' is a bit of a stretch.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#106 - 2014-06-06 04:29:19 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Saying that people who dont like evasion farmers are on 'your side' is a bit of a stretch.


?

That makes no sense.
I have been arguing against hide and seek plexing for years. See my sig which links to the same arguments on the old boards. We still have the same problems which require the same solutions.

If you look in this thread however you will, in fact, see people arguing that evasion farming is not a big deal since they don't bust bunkers. Whether tis that argument or some other like "we don't want those systems anyway," you will see several people minimizing the impact of evasion farmers in this thread.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#107 - 2014-06-06 05:08:55 UTC
Go win FW with an alt army of plexers, and then come talk to us.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#108 - 2014-06-06 05:34:14 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Go win FW with an alt army of plexers, and then come talk to us.


Still trying to minimize the role that plex rabbits play in fw?

I'm not sure if you directed that comment at me or Cromwell Savage. I think Cromwell was in the Gallente militia when they won faction war thanks in large part to an army of alt plexers. So does his opinion count?

He agrees with me that evasion alts have "a massive impact" in the faction war occupancy.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#109 - 2014-06-06 08:51:12 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Cerain, since you're having a difficult time, allow me to clarify some things for you.

1. No farmer ever flipped a system.

2. No farmer ever put pressure on an occupied or defended system.

3. Number of systems held isn't a particularly good measure of who's "winning".

4. System upgrades have a far bigger impact on Tier than number of systems held.

5. Defended systems get flipped when PvPers put forth the effort to grind the system up and take it. Farmers play no role in this process.

6. Undefended systems are essentially ignored and only flipped when it's convenient to do so.

7. Non-station and non-agent systems are essentially irrelevant.

So, in other words, even though farmers are still the biggest VP/day in FW, their impact will continue to be negligible in the grand scheme of things. The stats that FlyingHotPocket posted, showing a massive decrease in VP/day across that particular militia, is the better gauge of how things are going in terms of difficulty of plexing.

Castnicke's right to a large degree. Folks who don't see FW as an LP ATM are here more for the fights than anything else. Invading systems is a good way to generate those fights. So is bashing infrastructure like POCOs and POSes. If some farmer wants to spend his or her time spinning buttons in the back end of nowhere, that has no impact on the warzone or our FW experience in and of itself.


1. Flipping the system is a very tiny portion of the manhours spent to capture a system. A wing of bombers flips the system pretty quick and usually nobody is going to spend 72 hours deplexing.

2. I spend much of my day defensive plexing my home system. Every. Single. Day. As long as I am online and at the keyboard, no wartarget captures a plex in my system. Yet there I am spending hours deplexing. If I don't, few others will, and the system slowly ticks up. That not pressure?

3. True, but the tier directly contributes to the number of plexes being captured. I see the whines all the time "we're tier 1 so why bother?". A higher tier means more pilot retention, warzone activity, etc.

4. Yes, but you need a certain number of systems before you can get tier 2. If you're stuck on 10 systems, you're stuck there for quite a long time.

5. My corp has flipped enemy home systems, and I can tell you from experience it's a LOT easier starting at 30% than it is zero. Farmers did that.

6. Correct.

7. Correct.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#110 - 2014-06-06 09:28:26 UTC
you are all syaing the same thing here

Plexers don't win FW they help you do it , by keeping some contestation , or begining contestation in a system.
generally when plexer , alt farmer whatever put it to some lvl ; ITS EASIER to start Plexfighting for the system, to win occupancy you need PvP to take the plexes if there is defensers in the system, and you need pvpers to bash the Ihub.

Alt farmer just help to maintain/put some constestaton lvl OUTSIDE the Plexing ops of a militia.

you can't win ( occupancy with only alt farmers even if they can put the system vulnerable) , But you can do it with pvpers Only ( cause of the ihub bash )

Templar Dane made a pretty resumé

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2014-06-06 09:51:27 UTC
Point is, almost nobody PVPing in FW wants farmers that:

1) take ISK out of FW

2) influence contested % without actually giving a damn about it


1) may or may not be good for the game as a whole, that's CCP's call. But I live in FW space, so personally I'd prefer my allies and enemies alike to be richer, instead of null or highsec players farming with FW alts. More ISK for lowsec PVPers = more pew; either because people can field shinier stuff or because people need to spend less time grinding ISK, or both

2) is just silly


IF there was stagnation and IF it was bad, CCP can just give more VP/plex. Simple as that, farmers are in no way necessary to keep the warzone dynamic (again, IF that is a desirable outcome).

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Catalytic morphisis
Moonlit Marshmallow
No Therapy
#112 - 2014-06-06 10:26:35 UTC
Cromwell Savage wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Val Erian wrote:
.... Thought this might be a useful thread about current status of FW plex farmers after Kronos..... Oops

but its turned into "What does Cearnain think about FW yet again" thread.


Haven't your fellow gallente pilots filled you in?

Farmers don't bust bunkers so they are irrelevant to faction war.



And all that time that they run the contest % up as they farm isn't a factor?

Farmers made taking systems easier as the "core" FW corps didn't have to dedicate as much effort to actually grinding the contest % up...and just had to focus on the coordination of finalizing vulnerable status and then the effort to flip the ihub.

Farmers had a massive impact. I've nearly quit this game due to amount of effort it has taken to keep our home system free of these douche rockets. Best thing ever that o-plexing has been 'nerfed'....

PS - already regretting replying to a Cearain threadnought...


If you nearly quit because of that then you probably should have, EVE has a lot of different ways to make ISK and such, if you need people to orbit a button with WCS's to make it a playable game for you then you should go to something easier, I believe WoW has a pretty simple dungeon Mechanic

Actual Link free and scout free solo PvP'er
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#113 - 2014-06-06 11:36:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Catalytic morphisis wrote:
Cromwell Savage wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Val Erian wrote:
.... Thought this might be a useful thread about current status of FW plex farmers after Kronos..... Oops

but its turned into "What does Cearnain think about FW yet again" thread.


Haven't your fellow gallente pilots filled you in?

Farmers don't bust bunkers so they are irrelevant to faction war.



And all that time that they run the contest % up as they farm isn't a factor?

Farmers made taking systems easier as the "core" FW corps didn't have to dedicate as much effort to actually grinding the contest % up...and just had to focus on the coordination of finalizing vulnerable status and then the effort to flip the ihub.

Farmers had a massive impact. I've nearly quit this game due to amount of effort it has taken to keep our home system free of these douche rockets. Best thing ever that o-plexing has been 'nerfed'....

PS - already regretting replying to a Cearain threadnought...


If you nearly quit because of that then you probably should have, EVE has a lot of different ways to make ISK and such, if you need people to orbit a button with WCS's to make it a playable game for you then you should go to something easier, I believe WoW has a pretty simple dungeon Mechanic


I would like to speak to croms point. I do not believe that he really cares about famers in back waters. In our home system we have been lucky for the most part in that there has been no serious threat from an organised offensive. This has granted us the luxury of maintaining a pair of stable systems.

Not to say that people dont try, with cloaks and stabs. They are a nuisance to catch and sometime take a lot of time which could be spent doing funner things.

It is demoralising to see a farrner complete a plex in our homesystem, or to log in to find it at 6%.

These farmers in particular i believe are what crom was referring to rather than the ones in back waters. Not to say farmers have no effect overall, i foresee X G's hyperbole on that point being milked by cearain for many posts to come.

No one likes evasion farming, Its just cearains observations and solutions are always flawed.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#114 - 2014-06-06 11:45:59 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Go win FW with an alt army of plexers, and then come talk to us.


Still trying to minimize the role that plex rabbits play in fw?

I'm not sure if you directed that comment at me or Cromwell Savage. I think Cromwell was in the Gallente militia when they won faction war thanks in large part to an army of alt plexers. So does his opinion count?

He agrees with me that evasion alts have "a massive impact" in the faction war occupancy.

I was directing it at you. You've stated that the side with the largest number of plexing alts wins FW. Which has already been proven false.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#115 - 2014-06-06 11:50:33 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
both militias where either forced into a handful of systems or completely out of the warzone.



Thanks for all the thumbs up but if farmers are forcing you anywhere then you have a serious problem.


Farmers won't push militias out of the super systems with close to 23.5/7 TZ coverage. They are a big deal to small or midsize groups that might want to claim a backwater system and don't have that coverage.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#116 - 2014-06-06 11:55:51 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Farmers won't push militias out of the super systems with close to 23.5/7 TZ coverage. They are a big deal to small or midsize groups that might want to claim a backwater system and don't have that coverage.

Agreed, but maybe not any more. We'll see where this settles out. So far it seems farmers are slightly on the defensive side of the equation - meaning it will take real player effort to make a system vulnerable. Time will tell.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#117 - 2014-06-06 13:04:07 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Go win FW with an alt army of plexers, and then come talk to us.


Still trying to minimize the role that plex rabbits play in fw?

I'm not sure if you directed that comment at me or Cromwell Savage. I think Cromwell was in the Gallente militia when they won faction war thanks in large part to an army of alt plexers. So does his opinion count?

He agrees with me that evasion alts have "a massive impact" in the faction war occupancy.

I was directing it at you. You've stated that the side with the largest number of plexing alts wins FW. Which has already been proven false.



Here you go with your claimed "proof" which is nothing more than assertion.

The problem is that we have had armies of plexing alts since inferno. You can try to claim that they have minimal effect but you fought on the same side as the minmafarm I fought against it. So we are going to have different views.

And calling it the minmifarm is no way intended as an attack against the traditional minmatar fw pilots. The minmatar farm really had little to do with them. So I don't blame them or give them credit. At one point everyone had a minmatar alt.


Crosi Wesdo wrote:

These farmers in particular i believe are what crom was referring to rather than the ones in back waters. Not to say farmers have no effect overall, i foresee X G's hyperbole on that point being milked by cearain for many posts to come.



I see you still can't just admit XG was wrong. What part was hyperbole?

And he is not the only one in this thread trying to minimize the importance of rabbit plexers.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2014-06-06 13:07:52 UTC
Cearain wrote:
And he is not the only one in this thread trying to minimize the importance of rabbit plexers.

PITA =/= important.

Let's just all hope that most of them GTFO so we can argue about more interesting stuff.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#119 - 2014-06-06 13:45:21 UTC
Gallente Federation 23380
Caldari State 20820
Minmatar Republic 10120
Amarr Empire 8820

Pretty much the same as yesterday. Contested levels appear to still be going down a bit all over the FW map.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#120 - 2014-06-06 13:47:13 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Here you go with your claimed "proof" which is nothing more than assertion.
Fair enough. The largest alt plexing army has never won FW. Fact.