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Imbalance and the Inability to Avoid It

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#21 - 2014-06-06 06:27:17 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
You gotta have people to put into the tools...

That's part of being good at using the tools at your disposal.
Dominus Tempus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-06-06 06:28:48 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
It doesnt matter how good you are at using them if your out numbered and outgunned...

That just means you're bad at using the tools at your disposal.

You gotta have people to put into the tools...

Dude, every player starts off the same. Don't point fingers at anyone other than yourself.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#23 - 2014-06-06 06:33:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Point is it is impossible to make isk without buying PLEX which is wrong
Yes, the point is indeed wrong by virtue of it's inherently contradictory. If it was impossible to make ISK without buying PLEX, there would be no ISK to exchange for those PLEXes. The PLEX prices right now ar just a bubble anyway — the same ISK bouncing back and forth between speculators.

Your other point is also wrong: wasting more money on PLEX doesn't mean you win. It only means you lose more real-life cash on a futile hope that you'll be able to compensate a lack of skill with more shinies. Fortunately, the game doesn't work that way.


Unless you are aware of this lack of SP, and the overly hostile nature of your subject. Then it becomes a rightfull challenge to retrieve these subjects of their shinies. OP forgets this game allows you to mug the rich at every corner. PLEX and the idiots that buy shinies with it, only help to increase my wealth, it's in no way detrimental.

I agree with the lack of "fair fights" to make the game a tad stale at points. Nothing beats a narrow fight in terms of fun. But that's just a derivative of the sandbox, I don't mind it.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#24 - 2014-06-06 06:34:05 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
So it has become more and more difficult to have make Isk due to hostle blobs everywhere exept hi sec. On top of this galentee keeps getting nerfed. The only way ive found that it is possile to make isk is by carebear mining*gasp* but that is so far from being a sustainable income for one account.

Point is it is impossible to make isk without buying PLEX which is wrong because I already subscribe to the game. I shouldent have to pay for other parts of the game due the fact I already pay to play.

PvP- Blob or be blobed. PvP in this game has nothing to do with what you have or how good you are with it. It is all about who has more guns on field.

This sad fact makes CCP's balencing of the game USELESS. My 100 rookie ships will kill your tens of billions worth of blinged out Battleships anyday.

Point is this game is getting very stale. Skill doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is who can buy more PLEX than the other guy will win. I have never gotten into an even matched fight in 1 year playing this game. People will only fight you if its 4 of them against you. It simply isnt fun being blobbed or honestly blobbing people. Unfortunately that is the lame nature of this game. I cant stand being in fights that last 5 secconds.

Long story short I do not feel like my subscription fee's are fair for what I get. Now we have to pay for ship paint jobs too plus being allowed to use our charicter slots? We already subscribe. I just feel ripped off. CCP needs to worry less about balencing ships and actually making good fights in the game. Balenced ships are pointless if you cant get a balenced numbers fight.


While I think CCP does much to identify retention issues for its newer players I don't see much work from them in identifying why veterans are leaving - although they mention an overall severe reduction in gross value per account in the 2013 CSM minutes. The conclusion drawn is that high-value veteran players are leaving (or biomassing) because they've hit their perceived end game and no longer find the game attractive.

May I address a couple of your concerns? Since you can't actually stop me I'm going to anyway.

1. Balancing in the manner you describe is to stop fail-players from buying their way to success. More detailed version is simple, 20 t1 destroyers with 200dps each is 4k dps vs your battleships measly 650-1000dps. Yet the costs are likely to be similar and the battleship probably has less ehp than the destroyer swarm. It's just wartime economics at work here and not intrinsically a balancing issue you can fix overnight by just adjusting a few ship stats, there's also the issue of your corporation members simply not having the SP for a powerful BS fit.

2. Gate camps have always existed since the beginning. This is a genuine problem but without an actual place to discuss it with strong moderation it will probably not get addressed, too many game mechanics hinge on arbitrary choke points like gates/acc.gates and stations.

3. Skill does matter, I now have a cerberus on SISI that has over 50 kills and an orthrus with about 14. Granted the orthrus has an assload of problems and practically cannot function against a competent enemy. This ship needs a couple of minor changes and it will be perfect (like first of all identifying what exactly it's supposed to be killing predominantly). I fly true solo, no alts, no OGB, no fleets. Just boosters and my TQ implant sets. I don't fly on SISI with anything I can't afford to use on TQ.

4. The game has been stale for a very long time, as I briefly touched on in the sticky about WW layoffs. Since I joined in 2009 the games most significant changes have been the rebalancing initiatives, politically however I can't tell the difference between now and then. March of Tyranny syndrome, no matter whose in charge its still ******.

5. Your subscription fee does not entitle you to ISK or any other benefit than SP. SP is what you pay a sub for, what you do with your time and the SP you have accumulated is your decision and if that's not working out the way you hoped then clearly you're doing something wrong (or working for the wrong people).
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#25 - 2014-06-06 06:39:09 UTC
Disagree with your skill statement, as the ability to understand the function of the modules and the interactivity between different modules for given scenarios is the skill factor. But I think you were thinking that the skill is the navigating part...

As to the blob - always has been and always will be - join it or fight it.

As several people have stated - this game is a sandbox where the opportunity is equal to all. There are many ways to make ISK and buying PLEX is just one. It's how much ISK you want to make versus how much time you want to make it in, is the crunch.

My advice - enjoy the friends and make the ISK secondary importance

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Brigadine Ferathine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-06-06 06:51:54 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
So it has become more and more difficult to have make Isk due to hostle blobs everywhere exept hi sec. On top of this galentee keeps getting nerfed. The only way ive found that it is possile to make isk is by carebear mining*gasp* but that is so far from being a sustainable income for one account.

Point is it is impossible to make isk without buying PLEX which is wrong because I already subscribe to the game. I shouldent have to pay for other parts of the game due the fact I already pay to play.

PvP- Blob or be blobed. PvP in this game has nothing to do with what you have or how good you are with it. It is all about who has more guns on field.

This sad fact makes CCP's balencing of the game USELESS. My 100 rookie ships will kill your tens of billions worth of blinged out Battleships anyday.

Point is this game is getting very stale. Skill doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is who can buy more PLEX than the other guy will win. I have never gotten into an even matched fight in 1 year playing this game. People will only fight you if its 4 of them against you. It simply isnt fun being blobbed or honestly blobbing people. Unfortunately that is the lame nature of this game. I cant stand being in fights that last 5 secconds.

Long story short I do not feel like my subscription fee's are fair for what I get. Now we have to pay for ship paint jobs too plus being allowed to use our charicter slots? We already subscribe. I just feel ripped off. CCP needs to worry less about balencing ships and actually making good fights in the game. Balenced ships are pointless if you cant get a balenced numbers fight.


While I think CCP does much to identify retention issues for its newer players I don't see much work from them in identifying why veterans are leaving - although they mention an overall severe reduction in gross value per account in the 2013 CSM minutes. The conclusion drawn is that high-value veteran players are leaving (or biomassing) because they've hit their perceived end game and no longer find the game attractive.

May I address a couple of your concerns? Since you can't actually stop me I'm going to anyway.

1. Balancing in the manner you describe is to stop fail-players from buying their way to success. More detailed version is simple, 20 t1 destroyers with 200dps each is 4k dps vs your battleships measly 650-1000dps. Yet the costs are likely to be similar and the battleship probably has less ehp than the destroyer swarm. It's just wartime economics at work here and not intrinsically a balancing issue you can fix overnight by just adjusting a few ship stats, there's also the issue of your corporation members simply not having the SP for a powerful BS fit.

2. Gate camps have always existed since the beginning. This is a genuine problem but without an actual place to discuss it with strong moderation it will probably not get addressed, too many game mechanics hinge on arbitrary choke points like gates/acc.gates and stations.

3. Skill does matter, I now have a cerberus on SISI that has over 50 kills and an orthrus with about 14. Granted the orthrus has an assload of problems and practically cannot function against a competent enemy. This ship needs a couple of minor changes and it will be perfect (like first of all identifying what exactly it's supposed to be killing predominantly). I fly true solo, no alts, no OGB, no fleets. Just boosters and my TQ implant sets. I don't fly on SISI with anything I can't afford to use on TQ.

4. The game has been stale for a very long time, as I briefly touched on in the sticky about WW layoffs. Since I joined in 2009 the games most significant changes have been the rebalancing initiatives, politically however I can't tell the difference between now and then. March of Tyranny syndrome, no matter whose in charge its still ******.

5. Your subscription fee does not entitle you to ISK or any other benefit than SP. SP is what you pay a sub for, what you do with your time and the SP you have accumulated is your decision and if that's not working out the way you hoped then clearly you're doing something wrong (or working for the wrong people).

I really like your points, I really do. SP for only ONE of your 3 Charicters whitch I think is a ripoff. The issue is I feel like people ARE buying their way to success. Just because we can afford it and can field it doesnt mean we will field it. Seccondly it isnt my fault because I am forced to join corps. I would Love to be on my own but CCP makes me join corps even if its an NPC corp.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#27 - 2014-06-06 07:01:59 UTC
There's nothing stopping you creating a 1-man corp. I did it and I feel just fine.

Also for people like me who go weeks at a time with limited spare time to play I could spend hours grinding ISK like its a second job or take 20minutes a day in overtime to pay for a plex. Although I consume plex only rarely I sympathise with those who do it as a means unto an end and not simply because they're bad at the game.
Brigadine Ferathine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-06-06 07:04:18 UTC
arnt 1 man corps super expensive?
Rannasha Kore
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-06-06 07:07:05 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
arnt 1 man corps super expensive?


Nope, just pay the one-time startup cost, which is negligible, and you're good to go.

They can get expensive if you want to set up an office in a popular station or run a POS on your own while not doing large amounts of research/manufacturing to justify the costs. But just setting up a 1-man corp is supercheap.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#30 - 2014-06-06 07:15:29 UTC
I think it was a couple of mil and thats it. Pocket change for anyone.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#31 - 2014-06-06 07:22:52 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
The only way ive found that it is possile to make isk is by carebear mining*gasp* but that is so far from being a sustainable income for one account.


Level 4 missions
Low sec exploration

Thats just 2 example activities right off the top of my head and yes they both work fine as i do them myself, aslong as you're not stupid you wont die
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#32 - 2014-06-06 07:26:30 UTC
I think highsec anom running has good return too so long as you just do the dens (or was it forlorn dens? anyway one of them has a disproportionately high spawn rate for commander units)
Dave Stark
#33 - 2014-06-06 08:02:07 UTC
i'm trying to figure out if you have a narcotics addiction, or a mental ailment.

you just seem far too oblivious to how eve works for this to be an actual, rational, thread.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-06-06 08:06:45 UTC
OP, if you enjoy solo or small gang pvp, why did you leave lowsec?

Also, there's really no point in making blanket statements about EVE PVP with just 250 total kills+losses under your belt.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#35 - 2014-06-06 08:16:44 UTC
Dominus Tempus wrote:
Plex is high priced because Incursions are money printers and causing things to inflate.

There are other causes, of course. That's just one I felt like pointing out.

Fanfest 2014 Economy presentation at about 12 min:

“Let’s look at the cause of all inflation or deflation…If anyone was worried about Incursions, they are not really a problem for us. They were balanced back in 2012 and they are not causing the economy to explode. They are not causing anything to be out of proportion, even though those that participate are able to earn a good living.”

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Brigadine Ferathine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-06-06 08:28:03 UTC
well I just dont know how to respond other than I wish you were in my head and saw things how I do.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-06-06 08:35:41 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
well I just dont know how to respond other than I wish you were in my head and saw things how I do.

way ahead of you. Already got my beer goggles on
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-06-06 08:49:28 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
galentee keeps getting nerfed

it is impossible to make isk without buying PLEX

PvP in this game has nothing to do with what you have or how good you are with it

Skill doesnt matter

People will only fight you if its 4 of them against you

Balenced ships are pointless if you cant get a balenced numbers fight
All of those things you wrote are simply not true, as is obvious to anyone that actually plays the game.

If they seem true 'in your head', you're wrong. Simple as that.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Brigadine Ferathine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-06-06 08:57:14 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
galentee keeps getting nerfed

it is impossible to make isk without buying PLEX

PvP in this game has nothing to do with what you have or how good you are with it

Skill doesnt matter

People will only fight you if its 4 of them against you

Balenced ships are pointless if you cant get a balenced numbers fight
All of those things you wrote are simply not true, as is obvious to anyone that actually plays the game.

If they seem true 'in your head', you're wrong. Simple as that.

...So I am either plain wrong or I dont play this game. I am very sure I play this game so that one is out the window.
Talia Prime
Imperial Militia
#40 - 2014-06-06 09:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Talia Prime
I have to agree with the majority of the posters in here, it is all in your head.

I have very little time to play any more yet I still manage to keep myself well stocked with ships and I suck at PvP, losing far more ships than I ever beat. This week I've logged in for all of 0 hours, last week I managed just under 2 hours and walked away with about 1b isk in faction modules. The week before that I logged on for round about 6 hours total and made 2b isk in modules, had one hell of a time dodging other players in null and lost quite a few ships in my poor attempt at pvp in low, most of which were 1v1's.