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I saw 5 gatecamps today where I normally see about 1.
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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-06-05 20:56:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Free us from these fatal funnels and what is the most boring style of game play next to mining.


And then no one will ever die.

The game has few enough ways to force a fight as is. Chokepoints like gates and station undocks are one of the few places to actually get it done.

I mean, if they double scan resolution on every ship in the game and remove warp stabs, then maybe it wouldn't basically ruin the game, but even so the idea is asinine.

it can only be this way if there is no people wanting to pvp....

because if 2 persons want to fight they always can meet and do it

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#22 - 2014-06-05 21:00:10 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

it can only be this way if there is no people wanting to pvp....

because if 2 persons want to fight they always can meet and do it


And then comes the part where the game is literally founded on the principle of non consensual PvP.

If people want a situation like you describe above, I suggest they go throw away more money at Chris Roberts.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#23 - 2014-06-05 21:25:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


If people want a situation like you describe above, I suggest they go throw away more money at Chris Roberts.


Then Chris be all like "Oh thank you very much. Ill make the game in a minute. You just wait there"

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Skeleton Queen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-06-06 01:39:44 UTC

Gate camping is super fun.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#25 - 2014-06-06 02:35:09 UTC
its summer, and a new expansion usually brings in resubs, then they get bored of the new stuff and go back to sleeping. I don;t have numbers to back this up, but if i was ccp, i would be doing the new expansion model base don when the uptick for the new expansion starts to fade. So if billy bob resubs for a month after the expansion, then lets it expire for 6 months and comes back, but now its only 6 weeks.. billy bob might just keep playing... so you could in theory keep the resubbers interested, but giving new stuff every few weeks.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#26 - 2014-06-06 02:40:57 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

it can only be this way if there is no people wanting to pvp....

because if 2 persons want to fight they always can meet and do it


And then comes the part where the game is literally founded on the principle of non consensual PvP.

If people want a situation like you describe above, I suggest they go throw away more money at Chris Roberts.


Eh, I'm not a fan of chokepoint mechanics myself, but it is what it is. I would have gone for strategic resources/territory/trade routes to fight over. If you don't want to pvp then you don't get to control them.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#27 - 2014-06-06 03:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

it can only be this way if there is no people wanting to pvp....

because if 2 persons want to fight they always can meet and do it


And then comes the part where the game is literally founded on the principle of non consensual PvP.

If people want a situation like you describe above, I suggest they go throw away more money at Chris Roberts.


Eh, I'm not a fan of chokepoint mechanics myself, but it is what it is. I would have gone for strategic resources/territory/trade routes to fight over. If you don't want to pvp then you don't get to control them.

Which is exactly what the gate system enables when you think about it. The ability to interdict people heading towards all of those things, but at the exact point on the route to them that you choose.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-06-06 06:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Riyria Twinpeaks
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Free us from these fatal funnels and what is the most boring style of game play next to mining.


And then no one will ever die.

The game has few enough ways to force a fight as is. Chokepoints like gates and station undocks are one of the few places to actually get it done.

I mean, if they double scan resolution on every ship in the game and remove warp stabs, then maybe it wouldn't basically ruin the game, but even so the idea is asinine.


It might work under some conditions, for example

  • Jump takes some 15 Seconds or something, during this time a cyno (or similar) is created in the spot of the target system where you will emerge and which holds for ~30 seconds after the jump maybe.
  • Modules to analyze residual jump energies within a solar system up to 30 seconds or one minute after a jump, so you can determine the target system, to actually be able to chase people.
  • Inability to jump when pointed, or even dependent on a timer starting when you are attacked
  • Recharge timer for jumping (maybe 20-30 seconds)
  • Limit range to make several jumps necessary for longer distances, similar to the current capital jump, but maybe with better ingame support to plan routes.


Of course this may not be enough and break other things, i'm no game designer. But with conditions like that it might still be possible to intercept people who jump into a system. You just need to be on your toes and have fast-warping tackle. And you generally won't know what's coming through as the "eyes on the other side" thing won't work.
You'd be able to chase after jumping ships. Finding them is a problem if they are smart, though, docking in a station or warping to safespots to wait out the recharge timer.

There'd be a ton of balancing with additional changes and adjusting timers to compensate for the absence of pipes where a lot of people have to pass through to travel between two regions.

If done right I think it could be interesting, but it'd so vastly change how the game works, I'm not sure it can be done, balance-wise, without overhauling the bigger part of the game and/or breaking EVE.
Penguinizer Illat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-06-06 09:51:03 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Let us dial in warps the way it's done in Star Trek or Star Wars and we'll see a "breakout" in this game of epic proportions.


Free us from these fatal funnels and what is the most boring style of game play next to mining.


Sit around for weeks to go between systems?
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-06-06 12:02:50 UTC
Skeleton Queen wrote:

Gate camping is super fun.


It can be when you are melting battleships with Thrashers.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-06-06 12:04:01 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

it can only be this way if there is no people wanting to pvp....

because if 2 persons want to fight they always can meet and do it


And then comes the part where the game is literally founded on the principle of non consensual PvP.

If people want a situation like you describe above, I suggest they go throw away more money at Chris Roberts.


Eh, I'm not a fan of chokepoint mechanics myself, but it is what it is. I would have gone for strategic resources/territory/trade routes to fight over. If you don't want to pvp then you don't get to control them.


If you know you will be going through a choke point you should bring friends?
Mario Putzo
#32 - 2014-06-06 13:47:42 UTC
People gate camp because getting fights is utter ****. Why jump 20-30 times in a night looking for a fight? Or even better have one guy jump a bunch of times while everyone sits in station waiting to bridge on them. The reason people sit on gates is because it is a content creator. Make a big enough impression over enough time and fights will come to you.

While the side benefit is getting kills and sometimes finding nice loot, its all about pissing enough people off that they eventually come and fight you with a fleet, or call other people to do it, or heck even attract the attention of some third party who also wants to fight.

Gate camping creates conflict, and the best part is you don't need to go very far to get, because the only thing more boring than orbiting a gate, is jumping through a gate 20 times and finding nothing but empty space.
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#33 - 2014-06-06 21:11:35 UTC
I've been on both sides of the gate camp scenario more times than I can count, and while it's proven it can create content and conflict it is usually a very, very, very slow boiling pot. It isn't even guaranteed to start a genuine conflict within a day and, let's be honest, if the usual custodians sitting in HED are any indication most gate campers would rather run when a real fleet shows up rather than engage in the supposed content they were trying to create.

Unless that content was supposed to be a re-enactment of a Benny Hill sketch.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#34 - 2014-06-07 00:20:26 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

it can only be this way if there is no people wanting to pvp....

because if 2 persons want to fight they always can meet and do it


And then comes the part where the game is literally founded on the principle of non consensual PvP.

If people want a situation like you describe above, I suggest they go throw away more money at Chris Roberts.




So PVP comes from these crap gate mechanics?

Maybe there should be something like a "combat probe" that can be used to find ships when they get into a system.


Oh wait. Cool

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#35 - 2014-06-07 00:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So PVP comes from these crap gate mechanics?

It's certainly one of the popular mechanics in some parts.

Never fun, but it's just as valid a way to start an engagement as any other I guess.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#36 - 2014-06-07 00:56:02 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Which is exactly what the gate system enables when you think about it. The ability to interdict people heading towards all of those things, but at the exact point on the route to them that you choose.


Totally not the same. Every gate is a chokepoint, no matter where you want to go. If you wanted to avoid strategic resources it doesn't matter, you still go through a chokepoint at every gate. Interestingly enough, the way I would have gone has the ability to be more entertaining since you can't control points of entry, you would have to meet your enemy at the place you want to defend and hope you brought more than him. Of course, I could see why some might not like that idea, it must be scary to think about defending your resources without a chokepoint mechanic. Smile

Caviar Liberta wrote:


If you know you will be going through a choke point you should bring friends?


So, always bring friends?

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-06-07 01:50:32 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Well armed gate camps too. Which is really rather overkill when we're only talking about a 17 jump route. I can only really attribute this to people suddenly becoming active since the patch launched. It didn't cause me any grief mind you, I run around in bubble immune T3's when I travel so its no sweat.

But I find something a little disturbing here. Do people really see an expansion that gets them super excited, re-sub, and then decide to do nothing but sit on a gate? Is this the mentality we have adopted? Real life fishing is more fun. I mean you don't get an explosion (unless you live in Arkansas) but the air is better and the water is ultra high resolution, unlike the undelivered textures that are not a priority to deploy even though they are finished because Reasons™.

I dunno, sometimes it just seems to me that the majority of people out there, even vets, continually come back to the game with the intent of doing fun stuff and end up doing the most conservatively boring crap one can imagine. Why does this happen? Are peoples nerves really that fickle, or is there something actually really fun about sitting on a gate for four hours straight with the only kill of the night being the shuttle of a 1 month old character primed to become the next botting raven for their rival alliance?


Lol you are new to eve right? welcome.....
This is so old school.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#38 - 2014-06-07 02:00:50 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So PVP comes from these crap gate mechanics?

It's certainly one of the popular mechanics in some parts.

Never fun, but it's just as valid a way to start an engagement as any other I guess.




It's just a little disappointing to see new stuff in the game, and on the idea that there's a spike in resubs and logins after an expansion, and people come in to.......


gate camp


I think in the long run the campers suffer more. Miners at least get something out of staring at a screen.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#39 - 2014-06-07 02:21:35 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I think in the long run the campers suffer more. Miners at least get something out of staring at a screen.

I don't think it's the miners in this particular case, although I did follow an awesome Procurer/Venture fleet for a bit through lowsec yesterday. About 30 ships in the fleet making their way to some op as they were mining fit and not a lol-pvp fleet.

However, I've noticed a lot more people ratting in lowsec since the Kronos release.

I think the gate camps are taking advantage of 2 things:

1. higher movement of ships through gates creates easy targets; and
2. ships carrying Mordu's BPCs provide a different way to obtain those BPCs.

While the ratter gets 100% certainty of a BPC drop, finding the Mordu's spawns initially is a boring process. So while the campers have a lower chance of a BPC drop from the wreck, all of the boring ratting is being done by someone else.

Same eventual outcome whether you are ratting or gate camping.

Which is more boring? Individual choice I guess.
Solecist Project
#40 - 2014-06-07 08:54:18 UTC
... but I'm almost finished ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
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