Warfare & Tactics

Ok so we agree with the straight forward view that the side that holds more systems is winning the occupancy war? Or do you like XG want some sort of malleable victory condition about the "terrain" that you can bend to fit whatever theory you want?

Who is "we" in this post? Believe it or not gallente have lots and lots of rabbit alts running plexes. If they all went away caldari would be winning the occupancy war no matter how elite gallente is at pvp. This is so obvious it shouldn't even be controversial.

The problem is that too many vocal people are refusing to acknowledge the actual facts and continue to claim that occupancy in 95% of the systems has something to do with pvp.

The holdouts are mostly gallente because they are currently winning the war. If Caldari were winning the war they would likely have more people denying the obvious impact of rabbit plexing.

The minmatar already went through the phase where they claimed they had some in the militia claiming rabbit plexing wasn't the driving force. But for the most part everyone in faction war realizes rabbit plexing is very relevant to winning the occupancy war. Its really only gallente pilots arguing otherwise.

I'll be happy to agree that success in the occupancy war is primarily measured by the systems you hold. I don't agree that number of systems held is the only measure of that - it's too simplistic. There *is* a real difference between taking a nowhereville stationless system like Arderonne and taking Eha. To ignore that difference is foolish,

During the TEST invasion, Gallente was undeniably forced back to a handful of core systems. CalMil was undoubtedly on top in the occupancy war - and noone denied it. GalMil maintained - and continues to maintain - that if you're unable to successfully take home systems away from the opposing militia, you really haven't accomplished much of significance. I view our current "winningness" of the occupancy war in a similar manner - we kicked CalMil out of the majority of their home systems, and successfully countered every major push they made to establish new ones near our home systems. By that measure, we're doing well. CalMil - to give them their due - successfully continued to hold the Heyd / Ladistier area for a good long while, and have reestablished themselves in Kinakka. That's a success in their part, and a start to a new offensive if they want it to be.

If 25% or so of the systems in FW matter, because they're station / agent / home systems, then control of the rest really doesn't.

In short, you're trying to define occupancy war success by simple external numerical measures. That's not going to reflect the reality in the warzone to any real degree.

Oh, not saying that you won't be able to plex unopposed from now and then. They are regularly defended however.

But yeah - the ones that are held by Caldari are held by them because we've either a) not tried to make a serious push to conquer them, or b) have been unable to overcome the opposition in those systems when we've made a serious push. To cite a recent example, we were able to flip Kehjari after about a week of plexing followed by a three day orgy of death and destruction. We pivoted towards Kinakka, but weren't able to make much headway there at all against Templis.

And no, it's nothing different from what XG's always been saying - you've just been missing the point for a very very long time is all.

You're doing it wrong Vesk. You're not supposed to get non stop pvp in one system. You're supposed to get nonstop pvp in every single system. Otherwise FW is a big fail.

So because its different to when he just used to humor you throwing figures like 95% around, it makes that list somehow less true?

I do remember you being correct about something in the past, cant recall what it was.



Also incorrect. Even if that did happen and miraculously cearain accepted it as true (obviously the most important part), im sure he could conjure something else up to drone on about.

I read some reddit forums when test was dominating the war zone. It was clear their leadership didn't get the memo that in order to win the occupancy war you have to take certain systems of gallente's choosing. They just looked at getting to a high tier and raking in lp. Because that is how the system was created by ccp. All the systems count toward the tier system equally.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1qqsyz/test_alliance_and_caldari_militia_take_the/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1qpbn4/test_pushes_caldari_warzone_to_tier_3/


Nulli did pretty much the same thing when they were in the Amarr militia. Lots of people in Amarr milita thought they should take huola. But they really didn't care to. People can imagine that this or that system is very important to hold and it can make for good content. Certain minmatar used to have a thing for holding onto Arzad and it lead to some good things. I am not against doing this.


But it isn't in the actual mechanics so you shouldn't be surprised that large entities that look at the mechanics objectively simply ignore your pet projects. Thats why lots of amarr militia that are more interested in pvp than in sticking alts in empty frigates to dplex base on the outskirts of faction war. No need to bother with the rabbit plexing.


Bottom line: I look at the real objective stuff like the actual mechanics. Certain gallente want to redefine winning based on systems they have some sort of roleplay or emotional attachment to. Its all real good, but keep the real mechanics seperate from the imagined ones.

I never said that. But I will say it would be great if you did have fights over every plex in every system. Do you disagree? CCP would definitely need to nerf the lp payout in missions so plexers could stay in ships. But that would be a high class problem.

I think ccp should aim that on average every plex captured takes 2 -3 pvp fights. If that happened then people would be proud to have the most vp in their militia wouldn't they? People wouldn't be ashamed to claim they own the characters that get the most vp in a day.

Where do you draw the line of it being a failure? Do there have to be 3 plexes captured per fight in a plex? 20 plexes captured per fight in a plex? 100 plexes captured per fight in a plex?

TEST never did get it, you're right about that. And quite frankly their failure to take systems like Eha contributed to capping their Tier level and their eventual departure for the warzone.

The fact that failed nullbear alliances use FW as an ATM to rebuild their wallets has nothing to do with "winning" FW or "winning" the occupancy war.

TEST came, tried to conquer, failed. Our home systems still stood, in spite of everything they did.


I really would love to know what in the "actual mechanics" defines winning. Because there's nothing there (aside from maybe flipping the entire warzone) that would constitute a win.

Hence, we're pretty much able to define it as we choose. Over here in real FW land, we choose to define it by who can flip defended home systems and control important terrain in the warzone. Over in Cerain land, it's apparently who can earn the most LP and shitpost on Reddit the best.

.... Thought this might be a useful thread about current status of FW plex farmers after Kronos.....

but its turned into "What does Cearnain think about FW yet again" thread.

Haven't your fellow gallente pilots filled you in?

Farmers don't bust bunkers so they are irrelevant to faction war.