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Anti-frig for fleets

Author
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-12-04 10:42:20 UTC
Inexperienced player.

When I first started I saw someone chatting in local about a destroyer playing 'anti-frig' for a fleet and I really wanted to fly something like a destroyer or assault frig to kill tacklers for a fleet. Love the smaller ships in EVE and I plan to try and frig gang regardless.

I was quickly talked out of it at the time and have been looking at larger ships while support skills went up. I saw it mentioned again, and I just want to do a quick check before I start skilling for high levels of artillery and larger ships... is this something people desire? What ship is considered best for it? Is there any specific type of fleet that would want these, that I could look for and try to join a corp?

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Kurogauna
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-12-04 11:08:09 UTC
Zealot is interesting for killing small targets.

You can also use it for anti-drones job: 2 salvo = 1 drone dead.
Kraschyn Thek'athor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-12-04 11:37:25 UTC
Fleet = 100+

The Cruiser for Anti-Support are Zealot, Stabber Fleet Issue, Caracal Navy.
Recons lacking firepower imho and T3s are to expansive.

The Cruisers have one big drawback, Interceptors who are not dumb, blind and deaf don't get into your range by accident.
If you pursue them too far away and discard the protective weapon umbrella of your fleet, the opposing ceptor wing will attack and destroy you.
I have seen Hurricanes doing anti-support, moving 70km from fleet only to be crushed by a dozen Ceptors without losses. An unspirited, untrained Ceptor wing is no danger, knowledgable Ceptor Pilots with their own command structure will eat you.


The real thing ^^
Forget the Manfred von Richthofen idea. Anti-Frig Job is communication. Build your own chat channel and coordinate.
Use Crusaders, Tarandis, Claw, Dramiels and Navy Slicer, they can tackle and kill, but kill as a team. X up in your channel and get the support of 2-3 Buddies.
If you like, your Ceptor Commander can fly an Anti-Support ship that makes killing BC/Cruisers easier, Recons are real fine ships for this.
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-12-04 12:10:51 UTC
Kraschyn Thek'athor wrote:
Fleet = 100+
The Cruisers have one big drawback, Interceptors who are not dumb, blind and deaf don't get into your range by accident.
If you pursue them too far away and discard the protective weapon umbrella of your fleet, the opposing ceptor wing will attack and destroy you.
I have seen Hurricanes doing anti-support, moving 70km from fleet only to be crushed by a dozen Ceptors without losses. An unspirited, untrained Ceptor wing is no danger, knowledgable Ceptor Pilots with their own command structure will eat you.


The real thing ^^
Forget the Manfred von Richthofen idea. Anti-Frig Job is communication. Build your own chat channel and coordinate.
Use Crusaders, Tarandis, Claw, Dramiels and Navy Slicer, they can tackle and kill, but kill as a team. X up in your channel and get the support of 2-3 Buddies.
If you like, your Ceptor Commander can fly an Anti-Support ship that makes killing BC/Cruisers easier, Recons are real fine ships for this.



Now we're talking. Lets say I like fast moving mean attack frigates, and I like killing things. Where is my place in a fleet for a major corp?

Last time I brought this up people shot this concept down real fast, but as I've been lurking the last few months I keep seeing people talking about frig groups so I know I'm not crazy.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Kurogauna
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-12-04 13:06:08 UTC
of course youre not crazy.

Last roaming i did, i got ganked by a gang of bombers protected by a Falcon that landed on my face trough a cyno. The problem wasn't the frigs anyway, it was the falcon.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2011-12-05 00:24:55 UTC
If you get hotdropped by a group of bombers, the least of your worries is the falcon. That's just icing on the cake.

OP, Caracal (NI) is a good choice. Fit 5x AMLs on it and it will eat frigates like scooby snacks. Even better, you can get into a Cerberus and do it from 100+km. Plus the HAC skills will benefit you if you have other racial cruisers trained to 5. You can also branch out into a Falcon or Rook if you prefer Caldari and/or ECM. Permajamming enemy tacklers makes you lots of friends on the blue side, and lots of enemies on the red side.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-12-05 01:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
Yeah I think I've just finished making a big circle around to the tornado.

When I sat down to look at ships seriously for the first time I wanted to fly maledictions, hookbills, and thrashers, then added AML Cerberus when I learned about AML's. Meanwhile I liked Minmatar's dual weapon systems with RoF bonuses and I've always liked frontload (Volly damage in EVE speak). They also share the use of shield/speed skills...

Mixing Turret/Missile skills will be harsh, but I think it's pretty clear where I need to go now. AML Cerb slaughtering frigs for a fleets, Frig gang in Hookbills and thrashers, bring pain for small gang in this new Tornado thing. Tackle in a Malediction.

I'll go missiles first for PvE and to get my frigs up and running. Mission run in a drake I guess since it would use the battlecruiser skill. That can do 4's and make money just fine right?... branch into turrets later and add my Winmatar picks.

Thanks all.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Kraschyn Thek'athor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-12-05 06:02:23 UTC
The "ship thing" is secondary to organisation.

Your role in your corp.
- Find other small ship enthuasists
- Organise an Channel for coordination
- Learn
After a while your performance as an group should improve and your FCs will recognise this. A ceptor wing benefits greatly from a handful of players who are not switching to damage/logi department and giving experience and routine. We organised up to 30 Ceptors with just 4x dedicated players and as a whole I would say we were arround ten dedidcated ceptor pilots in the alliance.

A big Problem is, Interceptors are among the first T2 ship people can fly. So a lot of low skill players with low battle experience doing a rather demanding job.
Let's see the BS job....
1. Align and warp on command
2. target primary
3. press F1
4. broadcast early
5. overheat hardner when you get primaried.
Doing this perfectly and you become a 95% perfect bs pilot.

Your "role".
Ceptors take a lot of roles and often perform duties without consulting the fc, instead coordinating with each others. Self reliance, independant thinking. It takes a lot of pvp expericence to do this. You can't bother the fc with all those micro managment.

- Scouting, Warp ins/ping spots, Gate blockade
- Tackling
- Combatjobs, killing enemy ceptors and support, protecting cyno sips, hunting down stragglers and scouts

The less ceptors are in group, the more you have to perform the first part. For more numbers you delegate. Be allways ready to sacrifice your glory for the boring jobs that benefits the fleet (means, make warp ins). And nether listen to te nonsense of sacrificing for tackles. There are very few targets worth sacrifiing, since an depeleted ceptor command means the whole fleet becomes immobile. I only sacrificed myself once for an enemy fc tackle demanded by our fc.
Kraschyn Thek'athor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-12-05 06:07:24 UTC
And Interceptor V is your best friend.
Your signature in a claw for example shrinks from arround 90m to 67,5m.

Using Synth X-Instinct improves this values vom 88m to 66m.

It's worth :)
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#10 - 2011-12-05 06:36:02 UTC
I will also plug in for a Caracal (NI) with AMLs as a very effective frig killer, especially if you use Precisions vs ceptors. You will probably get popped by opportunitst snipers, or just alphaed by the enemy DPS every now and then but if you keep your sig low (AB fit) you can keep the enemy ceptors at range fairly efficiently.

ECMing them works well - remember that frigs have a low base sensor strength to start with so it doesn't take much to jam them. This brings the Kitsune in as an option, or a BB.

I would also say you can try a Flycatcher, few people fit it for DPS but it can pack a considerable punch. Same with a Sabre.

In terms of webbing, your best option is a Huginn. Multiple, long range webs and TP's, and fit AMLs/ACs. I've also seen Cynabals do very well against frigs/ceptors due to their over the top tracking and ceptor-like speed.
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-12-05 07:22:33 UTC
Okay, different spin on this now...

Who uses anti-frig? I have a good head start on missiles, navigation, and support skills. Lets say a month (and lots of missions in a drake) from now I was looking good in a Navy Caracal or Cerberus and wanted to be among a fleet and shooting down frigates for them. Where would I look to find a corp like that? What questions would I ask, and what would they look for from me?

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#12 - 2011-12-05 09:05:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Damar Rocarion
Trinkets friend wrote:
I will also plug in for a Caracal (NI) with AMLs as a very effective frig killer, especially if you use Precisions vs ceptors. You will probably get popped by opportunitst snipers, or just alphaed by the enemy DPS every now and then but if you keep your sig low (AB fit) you can keep the enemy ceptors at range fairly efficiently.


Caracal NI is surprisingly touch boat with 2 x lse, invul and rigs. If you fly in 0.0 fleet which tend to have dedicated tacklers like Lachesis, then you can drop the usual warp disruptor and fit more hardeners or even some fleet support ewar to one mid-slot. Also, did they actually chance precision missiles in Crucible? If not, i'd stick to faction ammo since the speed off-set is not worth the small damage increase you might get IMO (damage increase usually only applies against heavily pimped inties and faction boats which have full link set helping them).
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#13 - 2011-12-05 17:37:36 UTC
I strongly advise against Precisions in a fleet environment. They offer only a very small applied DPS increase against their intended targets (and considerably less DPS when you're shooting anything big enough to take ~full damage), at a crippling cost of half your missile range.

Stick to CN.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2011-12-05 17:51:36 UTC
A rupture with tracking computers will kill frigates pretty effectively, as will the aforementioned assault launcher caracal.